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The people who claim that $X million in Silicon Valley is still just middle class are annoying, but it's true. I have $8 million and it honestly changes very li

by nonce42 13y ago

The people who claim that $X million in Silicon Valley is still just middle class are annoying, but it's true. I have $8 million and it honestly changes very little. I'm living a middle class life, working a middle class programming job, my friends are middle class, I buy middle class stuff, and I have no special power or respect. I'm not sure how to convince you that this isn't just verbal gymnastics, but real. There are a few advantages. One difference is I don't worry about how I'm going to pay for e.g. a $1000 car repair (but it's still painful). I'm also more likely to hire someone for maintenance or gardening. Also, I theoretically could quit my job and live off my investments, but that's unlikely to happen. Of course this is partially a linguistic argument. If you define upper class as the top income quintile, for instance, than I'm upper class, but that's meaningless. I do wonder if I'm doing things wrong, and there's some secret for admission to the upper class. Maybe I should start flying first class, buy a Ferrari, stop shopping at Target, and hang out with rich people. (Although I think that would just make me nouveau riche, not upper class.) (My motivation in this comment is that these HN threads tend to be entirely speculation, and the semi-rich never comment, so I hope to provide a useful perspective.)

bradleyjg 13y ago
I agree it's definitional, so ultimately there isn't much to argue about. What I wonder is what you think the upper class (as you define it) have that's so great or special that you don't. Sure you could cabin it so narrowly as to be people that e.g. get personal access to the President, or can get there kids into Harvard with a single phone call or something, but that definition is so narrow as to be useless (which gets back to the whole all Americans are middle class thing). Having known several people with net worths in the 7-9 figure range, from brand new money through came over on the Mayflower, it really is a continuum. There's no secret handshake. But that doesn't mean that somewhere along the continuum you really are living a different lifestyle than a family of four living in Northern California with both one parent working as a teacher and the other as a hygienist, each making $40,000 a year. They've got credit card balances, student loans, a long commute because that's where the affordable houses are, stress over how they are ever going to pay for college, and so on. You may shop at the same stores, but is that really a good indicator? Call what you have upper middle class if you feel like it, but that family is solidly middle class by any reasonable definition. So if there's a difference in kind, and someone has to give up the label, it shouldn't be them. Finally, I should note that I find this little quirk of American culture fairly harmless. The one area where it can be pernicious is when it effects certain policy areas. For example, many people agree that the "rich" should be paying higher taxes, but since hardly anyone sees himself as rich, it is always a little farther out that the tax burden needs to fall. A good litmus test is the home mortgage income deduction, which is massively tilted to the high end of the income scale. If in justifying a high phase out you start to hear yourself say things like $1.5 million doesn't really buy you that much -- then you may be in the problematic zone.

by nonce42 13y ago

bradleyjg 13y ago

I agree it's definitional, so ultimately there isn't much to argue about. What I wonder is what you think the upper class (as you define it) have that's so great or special that you don't. Sure you could cabin it so narrowly as to be people that e.g. get personal access to the President, or can get there kids into Harvard with a single phone call or something, but that definition is so narrow as to be useless (which gets back to the whole all Americans are middle class thing). Having known several people with net worths in the 7-9 figure range, from brand new money through came over on the Mayflower, it really is a continuum. There's no secret handshake. But that doesn't mean that somewhere along the continuum you really are living a different lifestyle than a family of four living in Northern California with both one parent working as a teacher and the other as a hygienist, each making $40,000 a year. They've got credit card balances, student loans, a long commute because that's where the affordable houses are, stress over how they are ever going to pay for college, and so on. You may shop at the same stores, but is that really a good indicator? Call what you have upper middle class if you feel like it, but that family is solidly middle class by any reasonable definition. So if there's a difference in kind, and someone has to give up the label, it shouldn't be them. Finally, I should note that I find this little quirk of American culture fairly harmless. The one area where it can be pernicious is when it effects certain policy areas. For example, many people agree that the "rich" should be paying higher taxes, but since hardly anyone sees himself as rich, it is always a little farther out that the tax burden needs to fall. A good litmus test is the home mortgage income deduction, which is massively tilted to the high end of the income scale. If in justifying a high phase out you start to hear yourself say things like $1.5 million doesn't really buy you that much -- then you may be in the problematic zone.