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As a physician (with a BS EE/CS degree which is why I frequent HN), I tire of this argument. If one reads the article carefully, they find that the father Dr.

As a physician (with a BS EE/CS degree which is why I frequent HN), I tire of this argument. If one reads the article carefully, they find that the father Dr. Mark Moy attended excellent public medical school (and lower cost) Univ. of Illinois in Chicago while his son is attending the very expensive (and lower quality) Chicago Medical School (not to be confused with Univ of Chicago School of Medicine). Many graduating doctors get into big debt because they choose to attend private undergraduate and private medical school. Instead of getting into such huge debt, a fiscally responsible medical student should attend a lower cost, quality public undergraduate school and a public medical school. For example, in New York State, one could attend one of the SUNY schools or the public part of Cornell (the Agriculture school for instance) undergrad and then SUNY Downstate Medical School where they would get outstanding clinical experience for the approx cost of private undergraduate tuition alone. It seems odd that Berknanke's son would still be in debt if he had attended both public undergraduate and medical schools and does seem so fiscally prudent on the part of the Fed Chairman and his son. In addition, IIRC, you can have the military pay for full medical school if you serve for four years as a doctor after you graduate if you are not good enough to get into public medical school. In summary, for most people who complain of medical school debt in this country, it is really a sign of not being fiscally prudent on their part or of those of their parents.

quantumhobbit 14y ago
Sure you can save plenty of money going to a public school. But even though $100,000 is less than $350,000, it is still a huge amount of money. Even more once you consider that doctor's have to undergo a residency after med school in which they barely earn minimum wage.
- stephencanon 14y ago
  > doctor's have to undergo a residency after med school in which they barely earn minimum wage. Residents earn between $45k and $60k a year. While they do work long hours (my wife is a neurosurgical resident, so I am quite familiar with the hours), and are grossly underpaid compared to their skills, comparing a resident's salary to "minimum wage" is absurd.
  - pyre 14y ago
    $45k/year and working 80 hours per week works out to $10.82/hour. This may be where the 'minimum wage' figure comes from. I feel like talking about them working for "minimum wage" implies that their yearly salary is much lower than $45k+ per year, which is a bit disingenuous.
    - quantumhobbit 14y ago
      That's pretty much where the minimum wage comment comes from. I admit that it is a bit hyperbolic, but they are still ridiculously overworked and underpaid.
kbutler 14y ago
"The median four-year cost to attend medical school -- which includes outlays like living expenses and books -- for the class of 2013 is $278,455 at private schools and $207,868 at public ones." Whether the median is $278K (private) or $207K (public), that's a lot of debt with which to start your residency before starting to practice. I'd also dispute the "military...if you are not good enough" assertion.
- mbreese 14y ago
  And that's not even considering the interest that accues while you are in residency. Also, I'm fairly certain that the military (Army?) will pay for your medical school costs, but you still have to go (and be admitted) to a normal medical school.
  - djloche 14y ago
    There are two military options - you can have the military pay your medical costs at a non-military (public/private) school, after which you owe the military x years of service as a doctor in the military. The other option is to go to the military medical school - you're paid standard officer salary to go to school for the y years it takes, and then owe the military x more years service as a doctor. If you look at it as "getting paid to go to medical school" + "guaranteed employment for x years following medical school" it looks like a pretty sweet gig.
    - tsotha 14y ago
      I don't know how much value that "guarateed employment for x years following medical school" is. From what I can tell there aren't a lot of doctors out there hustling for a position.
  - nilkn 14y ago
    The military will do so, but you are obliged to work as a military doctor afterwards, and the pay is considerably lower.
- RyJones 14y ago
mbreese 14y ago
That's being a little disingenuous. From the article, the expected costs of private schools was ~ $278K, but still $207K for public schools. I accrued nearly $40K from one year of medical school before I switched to a straight PhD (I was in an MD/PhD program that didn't cover tuition). And that was over 10 years ago. Oh, and I was at Indiana University, a public school (and the only MD school in the state). My wife, however, did finish her MD (and PhD). She decided to go into a specialty, partially because the salary for general practice physicians (she's a pediatrician) is just too low. So, yes, medical school costs - public and private - are ridiculously high. Because of this, the number of doctors is just going to decrease. The only ones who are left will be a) those who can afford it, b) those who really want to be doctors - costs be damned. And all of them are going to be overworked. Now, couple that to the fact that GP's don't get paid very much in comparison to specialists, and you have a worse problem. Summary: the article is right - it doesn't pay to be a doctor. (Then again, I'm an academic, so I still made a bad choice!)
- swampthing 14y ago
  It's an interesting question - is this in fact a good thing, because we are left with only those who really want to be doctors regardless of how much money they make (and some people from really rich families)? Medicine seems like a field where you wouldn't want people that are motivated by money.
  - nmcfarl 14y ago
    The problem is that large scale debt makes you interested in money AFTER you get the degree. While getting it, the debts on hold, and there is no pressure. If you want a class of Doctors that don't care about money, have them accumulate moderate debt, and get a nice but not extravagant income. But Huge debt with a just large enough income to pay it off, just makes people who otherwise wouldn't care about cash, start caring about cash. (This is exacerbated by the fact that many Doc's go straight through and have never had a job until Residency, where they have to pay off the debt - but are not (yet) making enough money to do so. That'll focus your mind on money fast.)
  - rayiner 14y ago

quantumhobbit 14y ago

Sure you can save plenty of money going to a public school. But even though $100,000 is less than $350,000, it is still a huge amount of money. Even more once you consider that doctor's have to undergo a residency after med school in which they barely earn minimum wage.

stephencanon 14y ago
> doctor's have to undergo a residency after med school in which they barely earn minimum wage. Residents earn between $45k and $60k a year. While they do work long hours (my wife is a neurosurgical resident, so I am quite familiar with the hours), and are grossly underpaid compared to their skills, comparing a resident's salary to "minimum wage" is absurd.
- pyre 14y ago
  $45k/year and working 80 hours per week works out to $10.82/hour. This may be where the 'minimum wage' figure comes from. I feel like talking about them working for "minimum wage" implies that their yearly salary is much lower than $45k+ per year, which is a bit disingenuous.
  - quantumhobbit 14y ago
    That's pretty much where the minimum wage comment comes from. I admit that it is a bit hyperbolic, but they are still ridiculously overworked and underpaid.

kbutler 14y ago

"The median four-year cost to attend medical school -- which includes outlays like living expenses and books -- for the class of 2013 is $278,455 at private schools and $207,868 at public ones." Whether the median is $278K (private) or $207K (public), that's a lot of debt with which to start your residency before starting to practice. I'd also dispute the "military...if you are not good enough" assertion.

mbreese 14y ago
And that's not even considering the interest that accues while you are in residency. Also, I'm fairly certain that the military (Army?) will pay for your medical school costs, but you still have to go (and be admitted) to a normal medical school.
- djloche 14y ago
  There are two military options - you can have the military pay your medical costs at a non-military (public/private) school, after which you owe the military x years of service as a doctor in the military. The other option is to go to the military medical school - you're paid standard officer salary to go to school for the y years it takes, and then owe the military x more years service as a doctor. If you look at it as "getting paid to go to medical school" + "guaranteed employment for x years following medical school" it looks like a pretty sweet gig.
  - tsotha 14y ago
    I don't know how much value that "guarateed employment for x years following medical school" is. From what I can tell there aren't a lot of doctors out there hustling for a position.
- nilkn 14y ago
  The military will do so, but you are obliged to work as a military doctor afterwards, and the pay is considerably lower.
RyJones 14y ago

mbreese 14y ago

That's being a little disingenuous. From the article, the expected costs of private schools was ~ $278K, but still $207K for public schools. I accrued nearly $40K from one year of medical school before I switched to a straight PhD (I was in an MD/PhD program that didn't cover tuition). And that was over 10 years ago. Oh, and I was at Indiana University, a public school (and the only MD school in the state). My wife, however, did finish her MD (and PhD). She decided to go into a specialty, partially because the salary for general practice physicians (she's a pediatrician) is just too low. So, yes, medical school costs - public and private - are ridiculously high. Because of this, the number of doctors is just going to decrease. The only ones who are left will be a) those who can afford it, b) those who really want to be doctors - costs be damned. And all of them are going to be overworked. Now, couple that to the fact that GP's don't get paid very much in comparison to specialists, and you have a worse problem. Summary: the article is right - it doesn't pay to be a doctor. (Then again, I'm an academic, so I still made a bad choice!)

swampthing 14y ago
It's an interesting question - is this in fact a good thing, because we are left with only those who really want to be doctors regardless of how much money they make (and some people from really rich families)? Medicine seems like a field where you wouldn't want people that are motivated by money.
- nmcfarl 14y ago
  The problem is that large scale debt makes you interested in money AFTER you get the degree. While getting it, the debts on hold, and there is no pressure. If you want a class of Doctors that don't care about money, have them accumulate moderate debt, and get a nice but not extravagant income. But Huge debt with a just large enough income to pay it off, just makes people who otherwise wouldn't care about cash, start caring about cash. (This is exacerbated by the fact that many Doc's go straight through and have never had a job until Residency, where they have to pay off the debt - but are not (yet) making enough money to do so. That'll focus your mind on money fast.)
- rayiner 14y ago