7 ms·

> You know what these people call themselves? Middle class. They refuse to acknowledge that they are wealthy. No, they've got it right. The distinction between

> You know what these people call themselves? Middle class. They refuse to acknowledge that they are wealthy. No, they've got it right. The distinction between middle class and lower class is entirely about wealth, but the distinction between middle class and upper class is not. Wealth is a necessary, but not sufficient condition for being upper class; the distinguishing features are flexibility and power, not money. It is possible to convert money into these things, but most middle-class people who acquire sufficient wealth nevertheless fail to become upper-class because they lack the mental toolkit, or are embedded in power structures that won't let them.

rm999 14y ago
In India being upper middle class can provide you with a lifestyle (and I think therefore mentality) that resembles upperclass in the West because of cheap labor and weak labor laws. I know doctors in India who have live-in servants, chefs, drivers, etc.
- pekk 14y ago
  Agreed: if you have a maid, you cannot really say you are middle class any more
  - bruceb 14y ago
    Yes you can. Many unmarried techies live in the same apartment and share a room and still have a maid/servant. These guys earn $500-$1000usd a month. They have a TV but it isn't a flat screen. They have a decent mobile phone but it is not an iphone 5. They might have a decent motorcycle but not a car.. They split the cost of the servant who comes from another part of India. The servant might cost $150 a month, split 4 ways. The techies are not above middle class at all. The guy they employee is just really poor.
redcircle 14y ago
I agree: upper class isn't about wealth. So much of it is about culture (in the sense that culture breeds character traits). And the ambition to obtain wealth in the middle class breeds character traits that impose a barrier for entering the upper class.
- youngerdryas 14y ago
  >the ambition to obtain wealth in the middle class breeds character traits that impose a barrier for entering the upper class. Care to elaborate on said traits?
  - redcircle 14y ago
    One example: the inferiority complex.
    - youngerdryas 14y ago
      An ambition to achieve wealth breeds an inferiority complex? Actually quite the opposite. In the states snobbery of any kind is severely looked down upon, as it should be.
  - kamaal 14y ago
    One example I can think of is saving mindset. To save so much that you ultimately have a lot but spend none of it.
- tomkarlo 14y ago
  This is what folks in the upper class like to believe so they can feel like there's more separating them from the middle class than just money. It's also a comfort to believe that even if you end up bankrupt, you're still "upper class". (And often, that people who are new money and richer than you are somehow not "upper class.") Make a million dollars a year, and you can go to all the charity balls and opera galas you want. And your kids can go to whatever prep school you want to send them to. That tells me it's about your wallet, not where your parents went to school.
  - redcircle 14y ago
    It is quite possible for the middle class to move into the upper class. It is just ironic that the desire to entire the upper class is often part of neuroses that make it impossible to enter.
ashray 14y ago
You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty (http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generations-pay-off-debts-through-slavery/ http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generat...). By comparison those who have acquired sufficient wealth are free to do whatever they please! With that freedom comes a responsibility to acknowledge it and to not act like complete idiots. Unfortunately, even the rich to a large extent aren't aware of how rich they truly are.
- kamaal 14y ago
  >>You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. I am working hard here pushing 19 hour schedules to ensure I have a good life. Somebody else is all welcome to do so. I can understand if the person is ill or is physically disabled. But a healthy person who doesn't work hard deserves his condition. And in a country like India, expecting somebody to come and help is not a unrealistic expectation but a 'unjust' expectation. >>By comparison those who have acquired sufficient wealth are free to do whatever they please! You make acquiring wealth sound like somebody just woke up one day and found a sack of gold biscuits at their door step. >>With that freedom comes a responsibility to acknowledge it and to not act like complete idiots Exactly. There by each man for his own and shall deserve net result of his own work. >>Unfortunately, even the rich to a large extent aren't aware of how rich they truly are. Because nothing is really enough but that's a totally different discussion altogether.
  - jlarocco 14y ago
    >Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. > I am working hard here pushing 19 hour schedules to ensure I have a good life. Somebody else is all welcome to do so. I can understand if the person is ill or is physically disabled. But a healthy person who doesn't work hard deserves his condition. > And in a country like India, expecting somebody to come and help is not a unrealistic expectation but a 'unjust' expectation. I think you misunderstood what he's talking about. India isn't the United States. Until recently India had a rigid caste system where it was simply impossible for people to move outside of their caste. If a person's parents were laborers, they became laborers - that was their caste. It had nothing to do with how hard they worked or if other people helped them. Their caste was "laborer," so that's the only job they'd be able to get. It's not as strict as it used to be, and it's slowly dying out, but it does still exist.
imissmyjuno 14y ago
Is this an established theory? Out of curiosity, I'm interested in sources.
inopinatus 14y ago
In the UK we would call them the Upper Middle Class instead to clarify that they are merely rich merchants, not actual aristocracy. It's a matter of blood, don'tchaknow.

rm999 14y ago

In India being upper middle class can provide you with a lifestyle (and I think therefore mentality) that resembles upperclass in the West because of cheap labor and weak labor laws. I know doctors in India who have live-in servants, chefs, drivers, etc.

pekk 14y ago
Agreed: if you have a maid, you cannot really say you are middle class any more
- bruceb 14y ago
  Yes you can. Many unmarried techies live in the same apartment and share a room and still have a maid/servant. These guys earn $500-$1000usd a month. They have a TV but it isn't a flat screen. They have a decent mobile phone but it is not an iphone 5. They might have a decent motorcycle but not a car.. They split the cost of the servant who comes from another part of India. The servant might cost $150 a month, split 4 ways. The techies are not above middle class at all. The guy they employee is just really poor.

redcircle 14y ago

I agree: upper class isn't about wealth. So much of it is about culture (in the sense that culture breeds character traits). And the ambition to obtain wealth in the middle class breeds character traits that impose a barrier for entering the upper class.

youngerdryas 14y ago
>the ambition to obtain wealth in the middle class breeds character traits that impose a barrier for entering the upper class. Care to elaborate on said traits?
- redcircle 14y ago
  One example: the inferiority complex.
  - youngerdryas 14y ago
    An ambition to achieve wealth breeds an inferiority complex? Actually quite the opposite. In the states snobbery of any kind is severely looked down upon, as it should be.
- kamaal 14y ago
  One example I can think of is saving mindset. To save so much that you ultimately have a lot but spend none of it.
tomkarlo 14y ago
This is what folks in the upper class like to believe so they can feel like there's more separating them from the middle class than just money. It's also a comfort to believe that even if you end up bankrupt, you're still "upper class". (And often, that people who are new money and richer than you are somehow not "upper class.") Make a million dollars a year, and you can go to all the charity balls and opera galas you want. And your kids can go to whatever prep school you want to send them to. That tells me it's about your wallet, not where your parents went to school.
- redcircle 14y ago
  It is quite possible for the middle class to move into the upper class. It is just ironic that the desire to entire the upper class is often part of neuroses that make it impossible to enter.

ashray 14y ago

You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty (http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generations-pay-off-debts-through-slavery/ http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/08/generat...). By comparison those who have acquired sufficient wealth are free to do whatever they please! With that freedom comes a responsibility to acknowledge it and to not act like complete idiots. Unfortunately, even the rich to a large extent aren't aware of how rich they truly are.

kamaal 14y ago
>>You're 100% correct. However, the poor in India are truly trapped, almost like slaves to their own poverty Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. I am working hard here pushing 19 hour schedules to ensure I have a good life. Somebody else is all welcome to do so. I can understand if the person is ill or is physically disabled. But a healthy person who doesn't work hard deserves his condition. And in a country like India, expecting somebody to come and help is not a unrealistic expectation but a 'unjust' expectation. >>By comparison those who have acquired sufficient wealth are free to do whatever they please! You make acquiring wealth sound like somebody just woke up one day and found a sack of gold biscuits at their door step. >>With that freedom comes a responsibility to acknowledge it and to not act like complete idiots Exactly. There by each man for his own and shall deserve net result of his own work. >>Unfortunately, even the rich to a large extent aren't aware of how rich they truly are. Because nothing is really enough but that's a totally different discussion altogether.
- jlarocco 14y ago
  >Sorry I refuse to believe in this victim hood mentality. We seriously need to get out of this 'Somebody needs to do it for me' ideology. Nobody is going to help you and shouldn't. Because frankly no matter whom you can speak to is going through a little battle of their own. > I am working hard here pushing 19 hour schedules to ensure I have a good life. Somebody else is all welcome to do so. I can understand if the person is ill or is physically disabled. But a healthy person who doesn't work hard deserves his condition. > And in a country like India, expecting somebody to come and help is not a unrealistic expectation but a 'unjust' expectation. I think you misunderstood what he's talking about. India isn't the United States. Until recently India had a rigid caste system where it was simply impossible for people to move outside of their caste. If a person's parents were laborers, they became laborers - that was their caste. It had nothing to do with how hard they worked or if other people helped them. Their caste was "laborer," so that's the only job they'd be able to get. It's not as strict as it used to be, and it's slowly dying out, but it does still exist.

imissmyjuno 14y ago

Is this an established theory? Out of curiosity, I'm interested in sources.

inopinatus 14y ago

In the UK we would call them the Upper Middle Class instead to clarify that they are merely rich merchants, not actual aristocracy. It's a matter of blood, don'tchaknow.