5 ms·

This really is a no brainer, if you have the best and brightest coming here to work, then its only going to make everybody in the industry better as everybody h

This really is a no brainer, if you have the best and brightest coming here to work, then its only going to make everybody in the industry better as everybody has to raise their game to compete, as long as these workers don't flood the market (which the h1-b quota does a good job of keeping in check) The problem is with some of the foibles of the h1-b visa. H1-b workers cannot compete in the job market the way an American worker can, because to get the h1-b the hiring company has to fork over almost $5k to the govt, to transfer to a new job, the hiring company has to pay $3k (I think), every 3 years the hiring company has to pay another $1k to renew the visa, and at the end of 6 years the hiring company has to start a green card application which costs a lot of time, money and resources IN ADDITION to the renewal fee (again). Because of that, the hiring company wields extra-ordinary power over the h1-b worker which means that h1-b workers can be used to artificially depress wages. The fix for this isn't all that complex. keep the h1-b as it is (complete with the yearly quota, which should be adjusted according to demand), and give a green card to the worker AUTOMATICALLY after 2 years, so that they're free do as they please in the market and see what happens. Engineers know what they should be making and if anyone tries to underpay their workers, they'll have to contend with the fact that they'll be gone in 2 years, at which point they have to seriously ponder if it wouldn't be cheaper to actually train/hire an American to do the job. This would stem the problem of bodyshops bringing in immigrants and underpaying them for donkey years while profitting richly off their labor, and companies who'd apply for h1-b workers would actually need them and pay them fairly.

deleted 14y ago
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- trustfundbaby 14y ago
  > A no brainer to me would be that as the supply of something increases, the price goes down Sure, that is true, but this is a special case in which there is unmet demand and strict assessment and checks (the h1-b quota) to ensure that it doesn't adversely affect wages. If demand drops to zero then you adjust the quota accordingly that year (to use an extreme example) > you'd be increasing the supply of technology workers by 65,000 per year. You don't think this would do anything to depress technology worker wages? a. you're assuming that all 65,000 go to work in tech, thats not correct. h1-b is used to hire doctors, researchers and folks in the sciences and other highly skilled areas. b. But you don't take into consideration how many of those people would go off and start their own company and contribute to increasing demand for technology workers I think this fear of depressed wages is a bit irrational. Engineer wages have gone up and the h1-b program has been in place for many years, but we're still worried about this. What about the 14 Million illegal immigrants that may get amnesty under the new law? if only 1% of them are engineers (I bet its higher than that). thats still 140,000 folks that get added to the engineering supply overnight!
  - deleted 14y ago
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- davidw 14y ago
  > A no brainer to me would be that as the supply of something increases, the price goes down. How many computer programmers were there 50 years ago? And now? Have their wages gone down proportionally? "Economics 101" doesn't suffice to explain the complexities of the real world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy
pbiggar 14y ago
> The problem is with some of the foibles of the h1-b visa. H1B worker here. I think what you describe is actually completely offset by the strong demand for engineers. The cost of a H1B, which is as you say $5K or so (though its the same to transfer), is tiny in comparison to salaries, and also relative to recruiter fees (which can often be $30K). The only common reason companies don't do H1Bs is the hassle, and even then it's not that big a deal for any funded or profitable company. There is really no power over the H1B at the moment. There was during the bust following the dot com boom, and you'll always find unscrupulous employers, but I have literally zero worries about this. One employer did try to change the deal for me, but it took me literally 5 days to find a new job. In an economy like this, there is no danger. However, that's not to say your fix wouldn't be welcome (esp if a bust comes around again). I don't see it happening though, given both the aims of the H1B and the green card programs. A final correction: you're not allowed contract out H1B workers. That's not to say it doesn't happen, and there is one big company with a reputation for this (infosys? I dont remember), but your final line is hyperbole.
- trustfundbaby 14y ago
  > The only common reason companies don't do H1Bs is the hassle, and even then it's not that big a deal for any funded or profitable company That was not my point though ... I was trying to say that while all this is being done for the worker, that worker is beholden to the company doing all this on their behalf. Which allows the company take liberties with their wages that they could never even dream off with an American. > There is really no power over the H1B at the moment I agree, up to a point. At your 6 year mark, where the green card has to be filed for you to stay in the country. You are vulnerable, as it essentially makes it impossible for you to move for almost a year, getting canned at that point can also cause you untold grief. I also base this sentiment on some of the horror stories I've heard from h1-b workers at some of the body shops around the country. > but your final line is hyperbole Again, we disagree. If I can hire a guy for $60k on the h1-b when the going rate is $90k, guess who's winning? Yes I know there is a concept of a prevailing wage, used in the filing, but those rates are ridiculously low.
  - pbiggar 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

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trustfundbaby 14y ago
> A no brainer to me would be that as the supply of something increases, the price goes down Sure, that is true, but this is a special case in which there is unmet demand and strict assessment and checks (the h1-b quota) to ensure that it doesn't adversely affect wages. If demand drops to zero then you adjust the quota accordingly that year (to use an extreme example) > you'd be increasing the supply of technology workers by 65,000 per year. You don't think this would do anything to depress technology worker wages? a. you're assuming that all 65,000 go to work in tech, thats not correct. h1-b is used to hire doctors, researchers and folks in the sciences and other highly skilled areas. b. But you don't take into consideration how many of those people would go off and start their own company and contribute to increasing demand for technology workers I think this fear of depressed wages is a bit irrational. Engineer wages have gone up and the h1-b program has been in place for many years, but we're still worried about this. What about the 14 Million illegal immigrants that may get amnesty under the new law? if only 1% of them are engineers (I bet its higher than that). thats still 140,000 folks that get added to the engineering supply overnight!
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
davidw 14y ago
> A no brainer to me would be that as the supply of something increases, the price goes down. How many computer programmers were there 50 years ago? And now? Have their wages gone down proportionally? "Economics 101" doesn't suffice to explain the complexities of the real world. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

pbiggar 14y ago

> The problem is with some of the foibles of the h1-b visa. H1B worker here. I think what you describe is actually completely offset by the strong demand for engineers. The cost of a H1B, which is as you say $5K or so (though its the same to transfer), is tiny in comparison to salaries, and also relative to recruiter fees (which can often be $30K). The only common reason companies don't do H1Bs is the hassle, and even then it's not that big a deal for any funded or profitable company. There is really no power over the H1B at the moment. There was during the bust following the dot com boom, and you'll always find unscrupulous employers, but I have literally zero worries about this. One employer did try to change the deal for me, but it took me literally 5 days to find a new job. In an economy like this, there is no danger. However, that's not to say your fix wouldn't be welcome (esp if a bust comes around again). I don't see it happening though, given both the aims of the H1B and the green card programs. A final correction: you're not allowed contract out H1B workers. That's not to say it doesn't happen, and there is one big company with a reputation for this (infosys? I dont remember), but your final line is hyperbole.

trustfundbaby 14y ago
> The only common reason companies don't do H1Bs is the hassle, and even then it's not that big a deal for any funded or profitable company That was not my point though ... I was trying to say that while all this is being done for the worker, that worker is beholden to the company doing all this on their behalf. Which allows the company take liberties with their wages that they could never even dream off with an American. > There is really no power over the H1B at the moment I agree, up to a point. At your 6 year mark, where the green card has to be filed for you to stay in the country. You are vulnerable, as it essentially makes it impossible for you to move for almost a year, getting canned at that point can also cause you untold grief. I also base this sentiment on some of the horror stories I've heard from h1-b workers at some of the body shops around the country. > but your final line is hyperbole Again, we disagree. If I can hire a guy for $60k on the h1-b when the going rate is $90k, guess who's winning? Yes I know there is a concept of a prevailing wage, used in the filing, but those rates are ridiculously low.
- pbiggar 14y ago