5 ms·

Microsoft Excel: Revolutionary 3D Game Engine?

74 points by walrus 14y ago

mschuster91 14y ago
Actually Excel VBA is even more powerful - one can load the DirectX library and then do "real fast" 3D :D
tlarkworthy 14y ago
I have previously used a spread sheet to: implement a Runge–Kutta integrator and simulate a pendulum, and implement a back propagation neural network. Both times I had previously tried and failed to implement them in a proper language. Errors were had to debug in a batch process (loss of energy in pendulum, no learning in the NN). Excel/OpenOffice was great for being able to instantly propagate state through N steps, whilst simultaneously debugging the transition function of said state. Once my formulas were correct I translated it to a better language of course.
alanctgardner2 14y ago
Besides the author whipping out the old, apocryphal 'QWERTY is the worst layout on purpose' factoid, very cool. The thing in Excel that always made my eyes bleed was nesting IF statements: the else block is passed as the second argument, leading to ridiculous bracket requirements. I suppose the way the devs would have you do it is put one IF per cell in some hidden cells, and SUM the results. In short, Excel is powerful, but requires contorting your brain to get stuff done. It's like MS tricked the world into teaching millions of non-technical people BrainFuck.
- jahewson 14y ago
  IF as an expression isn't brainfuck, it's functional programming!
  - TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
    IF as an expression is C-like, it's the ternary operator.
  - alanctgardner2 14y ago
    I just wish it had syntax like JS promises, so the closing brackets weren't such a mess...
- andylei 14y ago
  i think it wouldn't be that bad if you could have the cell formulas be autoformatted across multiple lines.
- mistercow 14y ago
  >the old, apocryphal 'QWERTY is the worst layout on purpose' factoid It's not exactly apocryphal, and the version given in TFA is roughly accurate, except for the "intentionally uncomfortable" part. It's not that QWERTY is uncomfortable on purpose. It's that it is optimized for making old typewriters not jam rather than comfort. I want to give the author props for not quoting the common (and certainly false) "QWERTY intentionally slows you down".
nhebb 14y ago
People have been kind of abusing Excel since at least the mid-90's, using it for all sorts of things that weren't its primary intended use. I know there are several sites dedicated to games that run in Excel. Despite the slow decline of the desktop, the Microsoft Office user base is still in the 100's of millions, and with that many people you end up seeing some pretty amazing and funky stuff. I've been selling a text-to-flowchart Excel add-in (FlowBreeze) for years, so I'm just as guilty as anyone.
Monkeyget 14y ago
This paradigm of data streaming trough operations instead of a sequence of instruction operating on data is called dataflow programming : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dataflow_programming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dataflow_programming
plasma 14y ago
Thought the OP meant the actual 3D game engine in Excel 97. Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gYb5GUs0dM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gYb5GUs0dM One of the last easter eggs!
- leeoniya 14y ago
  was about to post this!
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mjn 14y ago
There are some interesting bits in the LtU discussion of this article a few years ago, though I wish it would've continued a bit longer: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2710 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2710 And, an HN discussion of a more negative article about Excel as a programming environment, focusing on the fragility and bug-proneness of Excel models that have become widespread in the financial sector: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5198187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5198187
deckar01 14y ago
Instead of using Excel, look into reactive programming.
- ConstantineXVI 14y ago
  I'd argue Excel _is_ a reactive programming environment: just not a conventional one.
  - rocky1138 14y ago
    Relevant: https://github.com/dmbarbour/Sirea#what-is-reactive-demand-programming https://github.com/dmbarbour/Sirea#what-is-reactive-demand-p...
rurabe 14y ago
I love this. To me it's coming full circle. As someone who felt like they graduated to programming from Excel, I often get peeved by people who use Excel like Paint with numbers. How many times have you seen someone doing calculations by hand and entering them into rows, making pretty spreadsheet pictures with colored cells, or completely ignoring the most simple functions like SUM (much less SUMIF). Now here they have ratcheted up the complexity several degrees... and why? to paint a picture. Cue the Lion King.
asdfs 14y ago
This is relevant: http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/2013/04/interview-cary-walkin-man-who-made-rpg.html http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/2013/04/interview-cary-wa... It's a turn-based RPG in Excel.
- walrus 14y ago
  That's actually what reminded me of this article.
demian 14y ago
Spreadsheet is a great model for software. I hope designers iterate on it more in the future, with better engineered and more domain-specific products than excel.
bcRIPster 14y ago
Pfft... my wife used to write side scrolling shooters with self learning AI enemies using Clipper on DBase III. You can use anything to write a game if you put your mind to it.
atesti 14y ago
Would this be possible with Google Docs?
rosstafarian 14y ago
Anyone remember the demo "Excelence by BraadWorsten Brigade" made in excel 2003 that used double buffering for animation? Really neat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HZ6Q224UPkc# http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H...! http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=53021 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=53021

74 points by walrus 14y ago

Actually Excel VBA is even more powerful - one can load the DirectX library and then do "real fast" 3D :D

I have previously used a spread sheet to: implement a Runge–Kutta integrator and simulate a pendulum, and implement a back propagation neural network. Both times I had previously tried and failed to implement them in a proper language. Errors were had to debug in a batch process (loss of energy in pendulum, no learning in the NN). Excel/OpenOffice was great for being able to instantly propagate state through N steps, whilst simultaneously debugging the transition function of said state. Once my formulas were correct I translated it to a better language of course.

alanctgardner2 14y ago

Besides the author whipping out the old, apocryphal 'QWERTY is the worst layout on purpose' factoid, very cool. The thing in Excel that always made my eyes bleed was nesting IF statements: the else block is passed as the second argument, leading to ridiculous bracket requirements. I suppose the way the devs would have you do it is put one IF per cell in some hidden cells, and SUM the results. In short, Excel is powerful, but requires contorting your brain to get stuff done. It's like MS tricked the world into teaching millions of non-technical people BrainFuck.

jahewson 14y ago
IF as an expression isn't brainfuck, it's functional programming!
- TazeTSchnitzel 14y ago
  IF as an expression is C-like, it's the ternary operator.
- alanctgardner2 14y ago
  I just wish it had syntax like JS promises, so the closing brackets weren't such a mess...
andylei 14y ago
i think it wouldn't be that bad if you could have the cell formulas be autoformatted across multiple lines.
mistercow 14y ago
>the old, apocryphal 'QWERTY is the worst layout on purpose' factoid It's not exactly apocryphal, and the version given in TFA is roughly accurate, except for the "intentionally uncomfortable" part. It's not that QWERTY is uncomfortable on purpose. It's that it is optimized for making old typewriters not jam rather than comfort. I want to give the author props for not quoting the common (and certainly false) "QWERTY intentionally slows you down".

nhebb 14y ago

People have been kind of abusing Excel since at least the mid-90's, using it for all sorts of things that weren't its primary intended use. I know there are several sites dedicated to games that run in Excel. Despite the slow decline of the desktop, the Microsoft Office user base is still in the 100's of millions, and with that many people you end up seeing some pretty amazing and funky stuff. I've been selling a text-to-flowchart Excel add-in (FlowBreeze) for years, so I'm just as guilty as anyone.

Monkeyget 14y ago

This paradigm of data streaming trough operations instead of a sequence of instruction operating on data is called dataflow programming : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dataflow_programming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dataflow_programming

plasma 14y ago

Thought the OP meant the actual 3D game engine in Excel 97. Check out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gYb5GUs0dM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gYb5GUs0dM One of the last easter eggs!

leeoniya 14y ago
was about to post this!

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

mjn 14y ago

There are some interesting bits in the LtU discussion of this article a few years ago, though I wish it would've continued a bit longer: http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2710 http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/2710 And, an HN discussion of a more negative article about Excel as a programming environment, focusing on the fragility and bug-proneness of Excel models that have become widespread in the financial sector: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5198187 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5198187

deckar01 14y ago

Instead of using Excel, look into reactive programming.

ConstantineXVI 14y ago
I'd argue Excel _is_ a reactive programming environment: just not a conventional one.
- rocky1138 14y ago
  Relevant: https://github.com/dmbarbour/Sirea#what-is-reactive-demand-programming https://github.com/dmbarbour/Sirea#what-is-reactive-demand-p...

rurabe 14y ago

I love this. To me it's coming full circle. As someone who felt like they graduated to programming from Excel, I often get peeved by people who use Excel like Paint with numbers. How many times have you seen someone doing calculations by hand and entering them into rows, making pretty spreadsheet pictures with colored cells, or completely ignoring the most simple functions like SUM (much less SUMIF). Now here they have ratcheted up the complexity several degrees... and why? to paint a picture. Cue the Lion King.

asdfs 14y ago

This is relevant: http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/2013/04/interview-cary-walkin-man-who-made-rpg.html http://www.digitallydownloaded.net/2013/04/interview-cary-wa... It's a turn-based RPG in Excel.

walrus 14y ago
That's actually what reminded me of this article.

demian 14y ago

Spreadsheet is a great model for software. I hope designers iterate on it more in the future, with better engineered and more domain-specific products than excel.

bcRIPster 14y ago

Pfft... my wife used to write side scrolling shooters with self learning AI enemies using Clipper on DBase III. You can use anything to write a game if you put your mind to it.

atesti 14y ago

Would this be possible with Google Docs?

rosstafarian 14y ago

Anyone remember the demo "Excelence by BraadWorsten Brigade" made in excel 2003 that used double buffering for animation? Really neat. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HZ6Q224UPkc# http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H...! http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=53021 http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=53021