4 ms·

I don't get how "the music" and "the chat" are good reasons to stick around while ping-pong table and xbox aren't.

by chime 14y ago

adw 14y ago
The music and the chat are about the people in a way that ping-pong and Xbox really aren't...
- notJim 14y ago
  I disagree. Where I work, the ping-pong table and (proverbial) xbox is where you find the people you're going to work on your next project or hack with.
xnxn 14y ago
It's really about the character of those things rather than the things themselves. Any company can just buy an Xbox or a ping-pong table, whereas the particular selection of music or friendly banter in the chat helps define the unique culture of GitHub.
- chime 14y ago
  Sure. But you can call xbox or ping-pong "the game" if you want and it has as much impact on keeping people as "the music". I don't want to listen to any music when I'm coding or thinking and I despise being judged for my taste (or lack thereof) in music. I'd rather play a friendly game of ping-pong which does not bring my personal choices/tastes into question. Of course, neither has any effect on me long-term. It would have been interesting had the author elaborated on what "the chat" meant. Is it friendly banter between knowledgable folks about their personal takes on interesting problems? Or is it high-school drama or bro-code hijinks?
  - swombat 14y ago
    I think the point is you can buy a ping pong table and a pair of speakers, but you can't buy "the chat" or "the music" - you have to grow and evolve it organically, through active example. It's culture, not "stuff". It can't be bought.
- __--__ 14y ago
  >Any company can just buy an Xbox or a ping-pong table Yes, but you also have to have a culture that lets you use them. My office has both and yet, they never get used. If you try to use them during the day, you're told it's too much of a distraction and you should get back to work. You pretty much have to wait until the boss goes home for the day.
  - xnxn 14y ago
    Having experienced this at a previous job I can only agree (and sympathize). I hope your future employer respects you and trusts you to use your own time effectively.
RKoutnik 14y ago
Not having seen the actual talk, I can only assume that "the chat" means being able to chat with lots of very smart people. (A huge benefit to any job like this)
- chime 14y ago
  I would have loved to hear more about that. Couple of smart people discussing the merits of git-fs would be interesting. Ceaseless arguments about vi vs. emacs would get boring.
- notJim 14y ago
  You can't chat with people while/before/after playing ping-pong or xbox? Music, chat, xbox and ping-pong can all be either a means to that end, or a soul-sucking lie.
notJim 14y ago
Yeah, to me those really all fall into the same category.
hkmurakami 14y ago
I thought about this, and I think music/chat/travel are more directly tied to culture and inter-personal interaction than ping-pong/xbox/free-cola. I remember reading that Githubbers are into Techno (trance?), so that speaks to the kind of people you're likely to work with. Chat is passive communication, which is something many developers look for. (God, if I could get a dime every time a sales/marketing guy went to talk to devs directly despite me getting all over their case so many times...) Travel I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and think it's travel for OSS conferences and the like, which again not all companies provide or look favorably upon.
- nichols 14y ago
  I remember reading that Githubbers are into Techno (trance?), so that speaks to the kind of people you're likely to work with. People with bad taste in music?
  - 3pt14159 14y ago
    Yes because the whole genre of techo/trance is garbage. /s
integraton 14y ago
Ping-pong tables, xbox, foosball, etc are trivial to buy, superficial, and mainstream enough that horrible founders/managers have long used them as a way to pretend they have "fun" "startup" "culture." These are all components of the "startup culture" stereotype, so providing at least one is part of the todo list of every funded "startup founder" in the bay area. Given that these things are common in even many of the worst startups in the bay area, they can't reasonably be used as indicators of whether a company is toxic or not, much less whether it has a good culture.
- henrik_w 14y ago
  Cargo-culting.
onemorepassword 14y ago
In my experience, the toys barely get used in a healthy environment. When you have a team of dedicated professionals that feel ownership over the product they build, they prefer to build stuff over playing games in the office, and spend their downtime with friends and family. Also, playing is usually a matter off stress relieve, and if there is no stress and deadlines, there isn't much need for toys.

I don't get how "the music" and "the chat" are good reasons to stick around while ping-pong table and xbox aren't.

by chime 14y ago

I don't get how "the music" and "the chat" are good reasons to stick around while ping-pong table and xbox aren't.

adw 14y ago

The music and the chat are about the people in a way that ping-pong and Xbox really aren't...

notJim 14y ago
I disagree. Where I work, the ping-pong table and (proverbial) xbox is where you find the people you're going to work on your next project or hack with.

xnxn 14y ago

It's really about the character of those things rather than the things themselves. Any company can just buy an Xbox or a ping-pong table, whereas the particular selection of music or friendly banter in the chat helps define the unique culture of GitHub.

chime 14y ago
Sure. But you can call xbox or ping-pong "the game" if you want and it has as much impact on keeping people as "the music". I don't want to listen to any music when I'm coding or thinking and I despise being judged for my taste (or lack thereof) in music. I'd rather play a friendly game of ping-pong which does not bring my personal choices/tastes into question. Of course, neither has any effect on me long-term. It would have been interesting had the author elaborated on what "the chat" meant. Is it friendly banter between knowledgable folks about their personal takes on interesting problems? Or is it high-school drama or bro-code hijinks?
- swombat 14y ago
  I think the point is you can buy a ping pong table and a pair of speakers, but you can't buy "the chat" or "the music" - you have to grow and evolve it organically, through active example. It's culture, not "stuff". It can't be bought.
__--__ 14y ago
>Any company can just buy an Xbox or a ping-pong table Yes, but you also have to have a culture that lets you use them. My office has both and yet, they never get used. If you try to use them during the day, you're told it's too much of a distraction and you should get back to work. You pretty much have to wait until the boss goes home for the day.
- xnxn 14y ago
  Having experienced this at a previous job I can only agree (and sympathize). I hope your future employer respects you and trusts you to use your own time effectively.

RKoutnik 14y ago

Not having seen the actual talk, I can only assume that "the chat" means being able to chat with lots of very smart people. (A huge benefit to any job like this)

chime 14y ago
I would have loved to hear more about that. Couple of smart people discussing the merits of git-fs would be interesting. Ceaseless arguments about vi vs. emacs would get boring.
notJim 14y ago
You can't chat with people while/before/after playing ping-pong or xbox? Music, chat, xbox and ping-pong can all be either a means to that end, or a soul-sucking lie.

notJim 14y ago

Yeah, to me those really all fall into the same category.

hkmurakami 14y ago

I thought about this, and I think music/chat/travel are more directly tied to culture and inter-personal interaction than ping-pong/xbox/free-cola. I remember reading that Githubbers are into Techno (trance?), so that speaks to the kind of people you're likely to work with. Chat is passive communication, which is something many developers look for. (God, if I could get a dime every time a sales/marketing guy went to talk to devs directly despite me getting all over their case so many times...) Travel I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt and think it's travel for OSS conferences and the like, which again not all companies provide or look favorably upon.

nichols 14y ago
I remember reading that Githubbers are into Techno (trance?), so that speaks to the kind of people you're likely to work with. People with bad taste in music?
- 3pt14159 14y ago
  Yes because the whole genre of techo/trance is garbage. /s

integraton 14y ago

Ping-pong tables, xbox, foosball, etc are trivial to buy, superficial, and mainstream enough that horrible founders/managers have long used them as a way to pretend they have "fun" "startup" "culture." These are all components of the "startup culture" stereotype, so providing at least one is part of the todo list of every funded "startup founder" in the bay area. Given that these things are common in even many of the worst startups in the bay area, they can't reasonably be used as indicators of whether a company is toxic or not, much less whether it has a good culture.

henrik_w 14y ago
Cargo-culting.

onemorepassword 14y ago

In my experience, the toys barely get used in a healthy environment. When you have a team of dedicated professionals that feel ownership over the product they build, they prefer to build stuff over playing games in the office, and spend their downtime with friends and family. Also, playing is usually a matter off stress relieve, and if there is no stress and deadlines, there isn't much need for toys.