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This slide set didn't touch on the most important factor for me: Your Manager. Having a micromanaging || incompetent || tyrannical || condescending || squeezin

This slide set didn't touch on the most important factor for me: Your Manager. Having a micromanaging || incompetent || tyrannical || condescending || squeezing (as in trying to get the last drop out of you) manager is the quickest way to show me the door. (Now GitHub from what I understand is a flat structure with no "managers" so I see why this wouldn't be in their slide deck, but it's a huge part of the equation for most organizations) And now for some other points >"Not being forced to make poor product decisions" IMO, this happens often when you're placed under a manager who (a) is way too optimistic about development time/resources needed, or (b) knows that he's squeezing, but wants to get more done with little headcount in order to help his way up the foodchain (a friend was victim to this and it was terrible to see). Dear managers: please give us enough people and time to execute properly. We really don't want to ship a half baked product either.

wisty 14y ago
If your team is crap (disorganised and unfocused) you might need that kind of manager to ensure basic hygiene practices are followed. A nice guy who lets people run wild can be just as stressful. The problem is, most managers never change their style to fit the challenges they face. Headkickers try to whip good teams into shape (and just piss everyone off). Hands-off managers will let an unfocused team drive into an iceberg. If the manager is a bad fit for the team, or you are a bad fit for the team, then change teams.
- integraton 14y ago
  If the team is disorganized and unfocused, then it's already a failure of leadership. Being a shitty, tyrannical manager as described by hkmurakami and using the "team is crap" as an excuse is unacceptable, and managers who do that are just deflecting the blame off themselves to avoid accountability.
bickfordb 14y ago
I think this is a really good point. Management is a skill just like software engineering, and from my experience there appears to be a wide spread of management ability among the ranks of those who call themselves managers. If managers create a toxic atmosphere workers are going to leave regardless of how many xboxes, espresso machines, travel opportunities or whatever.
- hkmurakami 14y ago
  There's a whole range of "management skills" that are pertinent to being a manager. This is what really complicates things. My former manager was extremely gifted at salesmanship (selling our "product" to the C level) and was deft at dealing with interdepartmental politics (including posturing to make our product/team more important in the company) for us. But he was a squeezer, and honestly just didn't care about the well being or mental sanity of each of his team members. This made him (in my view) a good or even very-good manager, but far from a great one.
  - hkarthik 14y ago
    This is the classic case of someone who excels at "managing up" but is deficient at "managing down". The way most of corporate America is structured today, most managers are incentivized to manage up. That's why great managers are so rare.
- jfb 14y ago
  Keep in mind too that many managers of technical teams are upjumped engineers; this is one of the worst antipatterns I've encountered. Not only does the organization pay the opportunity cost of losing engineering talent to the duties of management; the skills of management are orthogonal to those of engineering.
  - hga 14y ago
    "Not only does the organization pay the opportunity cost of losing engineering talent to the duties of management" In my experience a lot of these managers were essentially failed engineers, they never demonstrated they were at all good at engineering, so no loss like the one above you've seen, and of course they make terrible managers due to poor technical judgement and envy of those who can do it.
victorhn 14y ago
I am facing this situation right now. How do you deal with a manager like that? Do you confront them directly and tell them how you feel? Do you "report" them? Do you realize life is too short and likely they won't change and just quit? Any other suggestion?
- bitL 14y ago
  Quit. I don't believe any manager behaving like that is doing it without his/her full consent and awareness of the situation, and its effect on the lives of his team. Do you really want to make such person successful by sacrificing your health and happiness?
- damncabbage 14y ago
  In that situation I either try to switch teams (if possible), or move on and just provide feedback during the exit interview. If the manager's even a little bit politically-minded, you're gonna have a bad time if you try to fix the situation while he's still your boss. (Sorry, the cynical codger in me is talking.)
- tgrass 14y ago
  Apply for other jobs.
- hkmurakami 14y ago
  I have done all of the following at various points in the past: 1. Report to HR. 2. Switch teams (new manager). 3. Quit. IMHO (1) doesn't accomplish anything. Human nature is such that even the most empathetic, self-aware, fair people have a tough time changing their day to day habits and standards. The likelihood of a tyrannical manager somehow finding the light because some underling told them how they felt is infinitesimally unlikely. Switch teams or quit, imo. (switching teams is kind of like quitting anyways) And start looking asap, since job searches tend to take a while. Also, 4. Tell them how you feel. My former coworker did this. Did not accomplish anything. However, when another team member left for a very prominent company which at this point had developed a track record of recruiting from our company, he did get a decent raise. (this doesn't help the root cause of the frustration at all, but letting your boss know that you're unhappy does make him realize that you might quit at any moment) edit: I'm happy to be a sounding board in private if you think that'd help. Ping me on twitter and we can exchange contact details. (same ID as my HN ID)
hjay 14y ago
This. A manager should be able to provide the team with a unified vision, but allow the team members to be creative and flexible. A manager should be (or try their best to be) unbiased, respectful, and acknowledge the accomplishments of his or her team. A manager should be able to give the team valid and solid reasons for goals and vision. I recently had the opportunity to work with a good team, but a weak (see: crappy) manager. I wrote a blog post about it: http://www.jayhuang.org/blog/how-a-b-environment-is-created/ http://www.jayhuang.org/blog/how-a-b-environment-is-created/
seivan 14y ago
Poor product decisions, unsustainable work pace, decisions/sales made by people incompetent in the field I've suffered under this. At some point I'm either starting my own product or join a company who's decisions I can get behind. Software engineer run. Even designers should be developers.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
cpeterso 14y ago
There's a saying that people quit managers, not jobs.
steveklabnik 14y ago
That's probably because GitHub doesn't have managers. (Or everyone's a manager, depending on how you look at it.)

wisty 14y ago

If your team is crap (disorganised and unfocused) you might need that kind of manager to ensure basic hygiene practices are followed. A nice guy who lets people run wild can be just as stressful. The problem is, most managers never change their style to fit the challenges they face. Headkickers try to whip good teams into shape (and just piss everyone off). Hands-off managers will let an unfocused team drive into an iceberg. If the manager is a bad fit for the team, or you are a bad fit for the team, then change teams.

integraton 14y ago
If the team is disorganized and unfocused, then it's already a failure of leadership. Being a shitty, tyrannical manager as described by hkmurakami and using the "team is crap" as an excuse is unacceptable, and managers who do that are just deflecting the blame off themselves to avoid accountability.

bickfordb 14y ago

I think this is a really good point. Management is a skill just like software engineering, and from my experience there appears to be a wide spread of management ability among the ranks of those who call themselves managers. If managers create a toxic atmosphere workers are going to leave regardless of how many xboxes, espresso machines, travel opportunities or whatever.

hkmurakami 14y ago
There's a whole range of "management skills" that are pertinent to being a manager. This is what really complicates things. My former manager was extremely gifted at salesmanship (selling our "product" to the C level) and was deft at dealing with interdepartmental politics (including posturing to make our product/team more important in the company) for us. But he was a squeezer, and honestly just didn't care about the well being or mental sanity of each of his team members. This made him (in my view) a good or even very-good manager, but far from a great one.
- hkarthik 14y ago
  This is the classic case of someone who excels at "managing up" but is deficient at "managing down". The way most of corporate America is structured today, most managers are incentivized to manage up. That's why great managers are so rare.
jfb 14y ago
Keep in mind too that many managers of technical teams are upjumped engineers; this is one of the worst antipatterns I've encountered. Not only does the organization pay the opportunity cost of losing engineering talent to the duties of management; the skills of management are orthogonal to those of engineering.
- hga 14y ago
  "Not only does the organization pay the opportunity cost of losing engineering talent to the duties of management" In my experience a lot of these managers were essentially failed engineers, they never demonstrated they were at all good at engineering, so no loss like the one above you've seen, and of course they make terrible managers due to poor technical judgement and envy of those who can do it.

victorhn 14y ago

I am facing this situation right now. How do you deal with a manager like that? Do you confront them directly and tell them how you feel? Do you "report" them? Do you realize life is too short and likely they won't change and just quit? Any other suggestion?

bitL 14y ago
Quit. I don't believe any manager behaving like that is doing it without his/her full consent and awareness of the situation, and its effect on the lives of his team. Do you really want to make such person successful by sacrificing your health and happiness?
damncabbage 14y ago
In that situation I either try to switch teams (if possible), or move on and just provide feedback during the exit interview. If the manager's even a little bit politically-minded, you're gonna have a bad time if you try to fix the situation while he's still your boss. (Sorry, the cynical codger in me is talking.)
tgrass 14y ago
Apply for other jobs.
hkmurakami 14y ago
I have done all of the following at various points in the past: 1. Report to HR. 2. Switch teams (new manager). 3. Quit. IMHO (1) doesn't accomplish anything. Human nature is such that even the most empathetic, self-aware, fair people have a tough time changing their day to day habits and standards. The likelihood of a tyrannical manager somehow finding the light because some underling told them how they felt is infinitesimally unlikely. Switch teams or quit, imo. (switching teams is kind of like quitting anyways) And start looking asap, since job searches tend to take a while. Also, 4. Tell them how you feel. My former coworker did this. Did not accomplish anything. However, when another team member left for a very prominent company which at this point had developed a track record of recruiting from our company, he did get a decent raise. (this doesn't help the root cause of the frustration at all, but letting your boss know that you're unhappy does make him realize that you might quit at any moment) edit: I'm happy to be a sounding board in private if you think that'd help. Ping me on twitter and we can exchange contact details. (same ID as my HN ID)

hjay 14y ago

This. A manager should be able to provide the team with a unified vision, but allow the team members to be creative and flexible. A manager should be (or try their best to be) unbiased, respectful, and acknowledge the accomplishments of his or her team. A manager should be able to give the team valid and solid reasons for goals and vision. I recently had the opportunity to work with a good team, but a weak (see: crappy) manager. I wrote a blog post about it: http://www.jayhuang.org/blog/how-a-b-environment-is-created/ http://www.jayhuang.org/blog/how-a-b-environment-is-created/

seivan 14y ago

Poor product decisions, unsustainable work pace, decisions/sales made by people incompetent in the field I've suffered under this. At some point I'm either starting my own product or join a company who's decisions I can get behind. Software engineer run. Even designers should be developers.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

cpeterso 14y ago

There's a saying that people quit managers, not jobs.

steveklabnik 14y ago

That's probably because GitHub doesn't have managers. (Or everyone's a manager, depending on how you look at it.)