4 ms·

Funny that you mention domains, because, while there might be some public good in patents, it's much harder to say about domain name squatters. Why have we not

Funny that you mention domains, because, while there might be some public good in patents, it's much harder to say about domain name squatters. Why have we not put adequate regs in place to eliminate squatters? I liked a particular domain name for a new startup. I approached the domain name owner -- a FB engineer no less -- who had bought the domain, and I offered him a price that would have yielded him 7500 in profit. He turned us down and continues to squat on the domain and do nothing with it. We ended up going with a dotme domain, which isn't ideal. Now, as a lean startup we probably shouldn't have been looking for an expensive domain name in the first place. But ineffective squatter rules (10K for an arbitration!) are preventing the marketplace from making the most of attractive, catchy domain names, and instead we're settling on domains that do not adequately describe the business.

larrys 14y ago
So let me see if I understand your point. You are saying "they aren't using it so therefore we should be able to use it" and are somehow comparing that to what patent trolls do? Further you are saying that someone who holds a domain name (or any property) should have to satisfy a requirement of "use" of that property or domain name? And if not they should sell it to you for a price that you find acceptable or maybe just give it to you? If that is the case then please tell me who will be in charge of determining what "use" of a domain name is? What do you define as a squatter? Because it's not someone who registers a domain name and just holds it although that is the popular culture interpretation of the word. By the way there is no such thing as "arbitration" with domain names. There is the filing of a UDRP (which costs much much less and you can file on your own) but to do that you would have to have some basis. I can assure you that if you have just formed a startup you don't meet the requirements for filing a UDRP. It isn't meant to protect people who "just want a particular domain and the seller isn't being reasonable" it's meant to protect those with true intellectual property interests (from what I'm reading in your comment you don't meet this in any way).
- AnthonyMouse 14y ago
  The mistake is in thinking that domain names should be property. They're not property, they're address space. Imagine if trademarks worked this way -- right now to get a trademark you have to actually use it (or certify that you intend to use it), you can't just squat on a thousand different names and hope somebody is eventually willing to pay you for one of them. And the solution should be the same. You can't sell a trademark. What you can do is sell the goodwill it has accrued and transfer the mark along with it. That sounds like the same thing, right? But if you haven't used it there is no goodwill -- in fact, if you stop using a trademark then you eventually lose the rights to it. It shuts down the squatters but not anyone else, which is why we don't have trademark squatters the same as we do domain name squatters.
  - samuellevy 14y ago
    Define "using" a domain name. I have a couple of domain names where my primary reason for holding them is for email addresses, or an inside joke with friends. Admittedly, no-one is clamoring for these domain names, let alone offering me $7500 for them for their business, but just because you can't see the use doesn't mean that they're not being used. Yes, domain name squatters suck, but they're making money, so they'll keep doing it, and there's no way to fairly stop them that doesn't take away my right to hold stupid domain names.
    - AnthonyMouse 14y ago
      Nobody has to stop you from holding stupid domain names. Hold them all you like. You are using them for something. Nobody said "something" has to be hosting a website. But don't try to sell them without having built any value into them -- you should only be able to profit from the transfer if you're transferring it incident to something of value you've created, like an email service or website with actual users. And yes, that means some of the squatters are going to try to create sham transactions and commit fraud, but at least then you can prosecute it where you can prove it, rather than allowing their useless, irritating, wasteful arbitrage-based businesses to continue lawfully.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
timedoctor 14y ago
What's the difference between squatting and building your app? So you're doing to take my domain whilst I'm in startup phase?

larrys 14y ago

So let me see if I understand your point. You are saying "they aren't using it so therefore we should be able to use it" and are somehow comparing that to what patent trolls do? Further you are saying that someone who holds a domain name (or any property) should have to satisfy a requirement of "use" of that property or domain name? And if not they should sell it to you for a price that you find acceptable or maybe just give it to you? If that is the case then please tell me who will be in charge of determining what "use" of a domain name is? What do you define as a squatter? Because it's not someone who registers a domain name and just holds it although that is the popular culture interpretation of the word. By the way there is no such thing as "arbitration" with domain names. There is the filing of a UDRP (which costs much much less and you can file on your own) but to do that you would have to have some basis. I can assure you that if you have just formed a startup you don't meet the requirements for filing a UDRP. It isn't meant to protect people who "just want a particular domain and the seller isn't being reasonable" it's meant to protect those with true intellectual property interests (from what I'm reading in your comment you don't meet this in any way).

AnthonyMouse 14y ago
The mistake is in thinking that domain names should be property. They're not property, they're address space. Imagine if trademarks worked this way -- right now to get a trademark you have to actually use it (or certify that you intend to use it), you can't just squat on a thousand different names and hope somebody is eventually willing to pay you for one of them. And the solution should be the same. You can't sell a trademark. What you can do is sell the goodwill it has accrued and transfer the mark along with it. That sounds like the same thing, right? But if you haven't used it there is no goodwill -- in fact, if you stop using a trademark then you eventually lose the rights to it. It shuts down the squatters but not anyone else, which is why we don't have trademark squatters the same as we do domain name squatters.
- samuellevy 14y ago
  Define "using" a domain name. I have a couple of domain names where my primary reason for holding them is for email addresses, or an inside joke with friends. Admittedly, no-one is clamoring for these domain names, let alone offering me $7500 for them for their business, but just because you can't see the use doesn't mean that they're not being used. Yes, domain name squatters suck, but they're making money, so they'll keep doing it, and there's no way to fairly stop them that doesn't take away my right to hold stupid domain names.
  - AnthonyMouse 14y ago
    Nobody has to stop you from holding stupid domain names. Hold them all you like. You are using them for something. Nobody said "something" has to be hosting a website. But don't try to sell them without having built any value into them -- you should only be able to profit from the transfer if you're transferring it incident to something of value you've created, like an email service or website with actual users. And yes, that means some of the squatters are going to try to create sham transactions and commit fraud, but at least then you can prosecute it where you can prove it, rather than allowing their useless, irritating, wasteful arbitrage-based businesses to continue lawfully.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

timedoctor 14y ago

What's the difference between squatting and building your app? So you're doing to take my domain whilst I'm in startup phase?