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> Apples complete joke of a mobile operating system How could you possibly think iOS is a "complete joke".. without being a raging GooGoo fanboy, that is?

pointyhatuk 13y ago
Perhaps the GP owns a windows phone :)
iand 13y ago
There should be an equivalent of Godwin's law for the word fanboy and its derivatives. When I see it I immediately know rational conversation is over.
- white_devil 13y ago
  A fanboy is a fanboy. There's nothing wrong with pointing one out. Just be glad I didn't spell it "fanboi".
  - DanBC 13y ago
    The post you replied to (with the "GooGoo Fanboy" term) was overly vociferous. But that's when it's most important to avoid words like 'fanboy' because otherwise discussion dies. People probably thought you had a good point, but you lose that when you use words like 'googoo fanboy'. And that'll do nothing to sway the person you're replying to. If anything it'll just entrench them even more.
    - white_devil 13y ago
      > But that's when it's most important to avoid words like 'fanboy' because otherwise discussion dies. Any discussion with a raging fanboy is dead to begin with. He will reject anything that goes against his rose-tinted view of Google. Reason and logic won't reach him, and that's why it's alright to just call him a fanboy and move on, even though that's pointless too, of course. In this case, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of calling iOS a "complete joke". > And that'll do nothing to sway the person you're replying to. If anything it'll just entrench them even more. That's alright. He's already plenty entrenched. He'll change his views when he has to.
    - bennyg 13y ago
      How can you call that overly vociferous without thinking the same thing about "Apple's joke of an operating system"?
      - DanBC 13y ago
        I was calling 'apple's joke of an OS' overly vociferous, not 'googoo fanboy'.
    - moogleii 13y ago
      I didn't really think so. I thought GooGoo Fanboy was apt satire myself. The hyperbole of the original poster clearly showed that he/she was already very entrenched anyway. And considering it's possible that debating someone's strongly held points with logical counter points will only irrationally strengthen the person's original beliefs anyway, I think humor was appropriate: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/ http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/10/19/when-in-doubt-shout-why-shaking-someones-beliefs-turns-them-into-stronger-advocates/#.UWgXgZOG1yU http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/10/1...
      - bobbydavid 13y ago
        Even if that's true, there are still many other HN readers watching the conversation who may be more open to logical arguments from either side. So I think it's still "worth it" to respond in a meaningful way, even though you may not convince the original poster.
  - scott_s 13y ago
    It adds to the noise, so, yes, there is something wrong with pointing it out.
- PavlovsCat 13y ago
  Then actually look up Godwin's law. It says something about the probability of a Nazi comparison occuring, but nothing about that loosing the argument or ending the conversation. And that's just as well, because why would it be otherwise? Because Godwin said so? What, is he Adolf Hitler or something?
  - cleis 13y ago
    The corollary to Godwin's law is that the first person to bring up the Nazis automatically loses the argument.
    - PavlovsCat 13y ago
      A law and a corollary are still two distinct things. What people like to claim Godwin's law says, it doesn't actually. And that one is just one of many corollaries (not "the corollary") many random people made up because they could, and which I reject because they have no basis in valid reasoning. After all, the only argument here is "someone said that". Why do people who believe nonsense on someone elses say-so object to Nazi comparisons? Well, well ^^
      - solistice 13y ago
        "The Nazis and the Soviets both used intimidation tactics to further their political power". Ohhh...it seems I have lost the argument. Horrible pity, really.
    - drharris 13y ago
      We need a new law that states whoever brings up Godwin's Law without Nazis being mentioned also loses the argument.
    - deleted 13y ago
      [deleted]
krichman 13y ago
Hello. I don't have any strong pro-Google feelings. I used to really like Apple. iOS is only good for people that want something which works and which they don't need to spend any effort on maintaining. It is a complete joke for people that want a powerful mobile computing device. I use an iPhone now but my next phone will be an Android. To be honest I'll probably continue to buy iPod Touches as long as they can be jailbroken, but that's the only way I can make iOS into a platform that I'm willing to use. The last significant innovation in iOS was Notification Center. Android already had that, along with widgets, custom lock screens, custom keyboards...
- white_devil 13y ago
  > iOS is only good for people that want something which works I believe that already disqualifies it from being a "complete joke", and the definition of a "powerful mobile computing device" might involve something else besides "being able to install whatever software you want to".
  - jeremyjh 13y ago
    I spent two hours with my wife's iPhone trying to figure out which app was burning all her juice. On my android it takes just a few seconds since I can run a task manager that actually reports CPU utilization. From what I can tell, that is completely forbidden on iOS. Still, her phone does not "just work".
    - moogleii 13y ago
      Mine seems to. Shrug There's always a counter-anecdote somewhere, I guess. Back when the iPhone 4 was new, my friend had some kind of HTC Android, and he would beam about how he could run a tool that would help him micromanage battery power so that he could shut off this app versus that app (which he had to do quite often). I simply never had to. As Anandtech can back up, the iPhone 4 had amazing battery life compared to its contemporaries. Though more anecdotal evidence seems to show that newer iOS devices consume more power. Anyway, for reference, Settings > Privacy > Location Services. You can see what is actively using GPS. As part of its low-power design efforts, other than music, there really isn't much else that the OS will allow to run in the background. All other closed apps are frozen in a saved state. Also, Settings > Privacy > Location Services > System Services, at the bottom, Status Bar Icon.

pointyhatuk 13y ago

Perhaps the GP owns a windows phone :)

iand 13y ago

There should be an equivalent of Godwin's law for the word fanboy and its derivatives. When I see it I immediately know rational conversation is over.

white_devil 13y ago
A fanboy is a fanboy. There's nothing wrong with pointing one out. Just be glad I didn't spell it "fanboi".
- DanBC 13y ago
  The post you replied to (with the "GooGoo Fanboy" term) was overly vociferous. But that's when it's most important to avoid words like 'fanboy' because otherwise discussion dies. People probably thought you had a good point, but you lose that when you use words like 'googoo fanboy'. And that'll do nothing to sway the person you're replying to. If anything it'll just entrench them even more.
  - white_devil 13y ago
    > But that's when it's most important to avoid words like 'fanboy' because otherwise discussion dies. Any discussion with a raging fanboy is dead to begin with. He will reject anything that goes against his rose-tinted view of Google. Reason and logic won't reach him, and that's why it's alright to just call him a fanboy and move on, even though that's pointless too, of course. In this case, I just wanted to point out the absurdity of calling iOS a "complete joke". > And that'll do nothing to sway the person you're replying to. If anything it'll just entrench them even more. That's alright. He's already plenty entrenched. He'll change his views when he has to.
  - bennyg 13y ago
    How can you call that overly vociferous without thinking the same thing about "Apple's joke of an operating system"?
    - DanBC 13y ago
      I was calling 'apple's joke of an OS' overly vociferous, not 'googoo fanboy'.
  - moogleii 13y ago
    I didn't really think so. I thought GooGoo Fanboy was apt satire myself. The hyperbole of the original poster clearly showed that he/she was already very entrenched anyway. And considering it's possible that debating someone's strongly held points with logical counter points will only irrationally strengthen the person's original beliefs anyway, I think humor was appropriate: http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/ http://youarenotsosmart.com/2011/06/10/the-backfire-effect/ http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/10/19/when-in-doubt-shout-why-shaking-someones-beliefs-turns-them-into-stronger-advocates/#.UWgXgZOG1yU http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketscience/2010/10/1...
    - bobbydavid 13y ago
      Even if that's true, there are still many other HN readers watching the conversation who may be more open to logical arguments from either side. So I think it's still "worth it" to respond in a meaningful way, even though you may not convince the original poster.
- scott_s 13y ago
  It adds to the noise, so, yes, there is something wrong with pointing it out.
PavlovsCat 13y ago
Then actually look up Godwin's law. It says something about the probability of a Nazi comparison occuring, but nothing about that loosing the argument or ending the conversation. And that's just as well, because why would it be otherwise? Because Godwin said so? What, is he Adolf Hitler or something?
- cleis 13y ago
  The corollary to Godwin's law is that the first person to bring up the Nazis automatically loses the argument.
  - PavlovsCat 13y ago
    A law and a corollary are still two distinct things. What people like to claim Godwin's law says, it doesn't actually. And that one is just one of many corollaries (not "the corollary") many random people made up because they could, and which I reject because they have no basis in valid reasoning. After all, the only argument here is "someone said that". Why do people who believe nonsense on someone elses say-so object to Nazi comparisons? Well, well ^^
    - solistice 13y ago
      "The Nazis and the Soviets both used intimidation tactics to further their political power". Ohhh...it seems I have lost the argument. Horrible pity, really.
  - drharris 13y ago
    We need a new law that states whoever brings up Godwin's Law without Nazis being mentioned also loses the argument.
  - deleted 13y ago
    [deleted]

krichman 13y ago

Hello. I don't have any strong pro-Google feelings. I used to really like Apple. iOS is only good for people that want something which works and which they don't need to spend any effort on maintaining. It is a complete joke for people that want a powerful mobile computing device. I use an iPhone now but my next phone will be an Android. To be honest I'll probably continue to buy iPod Touches as long as they can be jailbroken, but that's the only way I can make iOS into a platform that I'm willing to use. The last significant innovation in iOS was Notification Center. Android already had that, along with widgets, custom lock screens, custom keyboards...

white_devil 13y ago
> iOS is only good for people that want something which works I believe that already disqualifies it from being a "complete joke", and the definition of a "powerful mobile computing device" might involve something else besides "being able to install whatever software you want to".
- jeremyjh 13y ago
  I spent two hours with my wife's iPhone trying to figure out which app was burning all her juice. On my android it takes just a few seconds since I can run a task manager that actually reports CPU utilization. From what I can tell, that is completely forbidden on iOS. Still, her phone does not "just work".
  - moogleii 13y ago
    Mine seems to. Shrug There's always a counter-anecdote somewhere, I guess. Back when the iPhone 4 was new, my friend had some kind of HTC Android, and he would beam about how he could run a tool that would help him micromanage battery power so that he could shut off this app versus that app (which he had to do quite often). I simply never had to. As Anandtech can back up, the iPhone 4 had amazing battery life compared to its contemporaries. Though more anecdotal evidence seems to show that newer iOS devices consume more power. Anyway, for reference, Settings > Privacy > Location Services. You can see what is actively using GPS. As part of its low-power design efforts, other than music, there really isn't much else that the OS will allow to run in the background. All other closed apps are frozen in a saved state. Also, Settings > Privacy > Location Services > System Services, at the bottom, Status Bar Icon.