4 ms·

Older guy with children here. To me having a 4 year old, even well behaved, in the office is disruptive - period. Maybe occasionally is fine and a treat for eve

by larrys 14y ago

Older guy with children here. To me having a 4 year old, even well behaved, in the office is disruptive - period. Maybe occasionally is fine and a treat for everyone but I simply can't see how doing that on any regular basis makes any sense at all. And no comparison to a pet who, while needing walking and might bark occasionally, or get attention from co workers, can sit for hours and do nothing and not make any demands. Not that I haven't seen children of the owners of sushi or chinese restaurants sitting doing their homework while the parents work.

tptacek 14y ago
I think it's worth considering how the physical structure of the office and how the structure of people's working time at the office makes children more disruptive than pets. I'm not a fan of dogs in the office during the day to begin with. Maybe it doesn't make sense to have kids coming in after school, either. But if you're regularly going to have people working into the evening out of a sense of shared endeavor, integrating kids into that (maybe they can do their homework, or play video games in the corner, or just eat a shared meal there) doesn't seem crazy. I concede that you have to plan this out in advance; you can't just take an already-running open plan office in San Mateo and say "bring your 4 year old to work any time" and have that work out.
- trhtrsh 14y ago
  Do you have kids? Having a 4-year-old in the office all day while people are working is negligent child care, except in cases of temporary emergency. Dogs can nap on the floor for 8 hours and be happy and not bother anyone.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Allow me to blow your mind: I have both kids (plural) and a dog (singular). If the point you haphazardly tried to make here was "it's impossible to care for a preschooler in a knowledge worker environment", I'm just going to say you're wrong.
    - enraged_camel 14y ago
      Sorry man. I want to agree with you - I really do. But I cannot envision myself both focusing on work and caring for a preschooler effectively. I might be able to do one well, but the other will necessarily suffer. Humans cannot multi-task, period, and research very clearly shows that switching tasks and contexts on a regular basis hurts productivity significantly. I think the idea of work-life separation exists for a reason. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
      - rdouble 14y ago
        I've worked in open-plan environments that made it a lot harder to focus than when I had to babysit my niece. You just give the kid some crayons, an iPad of Dora videos, and some fruit roll-ups and they are occupied for the afternoon. In contrast, there is little one can do to make an office busybody leave you alone, for even a couple hours.
        girvo 14y ago
        > You just give the kid some crayons, an iPad of Dora videos > and some fruit roll-ups and they are occupied for the afternoon. Swap the Dora videos for Game of Thrones, and I'd be set for an afternoon there, too.
      - tptacek 14y ago
        I'm not saying it works for every office, I'm not saying it has to work round the clock, and I'm not saying it's appropriate for every age. No office culture could have handled my daughter 10 years ago.
      - encoderer 14y ago
        There's an awful-lot of absolutism here for such a short comment. Funny the number of parents I know who have done exactly what you're claiming impossible.
        tptacek 14y ago
  - danielweber 14y ago
    I work in an office where people have had both kids and dogs in the office, on rare occasion. I was always surprised by the kids, because they were really quiet. My own kids are very noisy and would not belong in an office, but these kids were sticking around for an hour or two between one event and another, completely unnoticed by me until I saw them. It's no skin at all off my nose and benefits my coworker in some way, so more power to him.
rdouble 14y ago
It's not bad if you actually have an office. It doesn't work out in an open office plan or cube farm.

by larrys 14y ago

tptacek 14y ago

I think it's worth considering how the physical structure of the office and how the structure of people's working time at the office makes children more disruptive than pets. I'm not a fan of dogs in the office during the day to begin with. Maybe it doesn't make sense to have kids coming in after school, either. But if you're regularly going to have people working into the evening out of a sense of shared endeavor, integrating kids into that (maybe they can do their homework, or play video games in the corner, or just eat a shared meal there) doesn't seem crazy. I concede that you have to plan this out in advance; you can't just take an already-running open plan office in San Mateo and say "bring your 4 year old to work any time" and have that work out.

trhtrsh 14y ago
Do you have kids? Having a 4-year-old in the office all day while people are working is negligent child care, except in cases of temporary emergency. Dogs can nap on the floor for 8 hours and be happy and not bother anyone.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Allow me to blow your mind: I have both kids (plural) and a dog (singular). If the point you haphazardly tried to make here was "it's impossible to care for a preschooler in a knowledge worker environment", I'm just going to say you're wrong.
  - enraged_camel 14y ago
    Sorry man. I want to agree with you - I really do. But I cannot envision myself both focusing on work and caring for a preschooler effectively. I might be able to do one well, but the other will necessarily suffer. Humans cannot multi-task, period, and research very clearly shows that switching tasks and contexts on a regular basis hurts productivity significantly. I think the idea of work-life separation exists for a reason. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.
    - rdouble 14y ago
      I've worked in open-plan environments that made it a lot harder to focus than when I had to babysit my niece. You just give the kid some crayons, an iPad of Dora videos, and some fruit roll-ups and they are occupied for the afternoon. In contrast, there is little one can do to make an office busybody leave you alone, for even a couple hours.
      - girvo 14y ago
        > You just give the kid some crayons, an iPad of Dora videos > and some fruit roll-ups and they are occupied for the afternoon. Swap the Dora videos for Game of Thrones, and I'd be set for an afternoon there, too.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      I'm not saying it works for every office, I'm not saying it has to work round the clock, and I'm not saying it's appropriate for every age. No office culture could have handled my daughter 10 years ago.
    - encoderer 14y ago
      There's an awful-lot of absolutism here for such a short comment. Funny the number of parents I know who have done exactly what you're claiming impossible.
      - tptacek 14y ago
- danielweber 14y ago
  I work in an office where people have had both kids and dogs in the office, on rare occasion. I was always surprised by the kids, because they were really quiet. My own kids are very noisy and would not belong in an office, but these kids were sticking around for an hour or two between one event and another, completely unnoticed by me until I saw them. It's no skin at all off my nose and benefits my coworker in some way, so more power to him.

rdouble 14y ago

It's not bad if you actually have an office. It doesn't work out in an open office plan or cube farm.