5 ms·

I understand that a lot of people prefer and/or are stuck with Windows, but people who can't or won't move beyond that just are not likely to get much utility o

I understand that a lot of people prefer and/or are stuck with Windows, but people who can't or won't move beyond that just are not likely to get much utility out of Python. If you're looking to learn it for any actual, practical application, e.g. any kind of development that will be deployed on the web or any kind of native system scripting, spending time setting it up on Windows is a waste of time you will need to spend at some point anyway learning to use an operating system that's actually suitable for such a purpose. It's good that Windows users have the option of installing Python, I suppose, but something like this seems aimed at people who either are not actually going to do anything with or learn anything from it or are likely to simply give up after hitting the quirks and limitations of the platform. A far more useful article that would accomplish the same purpose more effectively would be on setting up a free virtualization environment in Windows, then pointing people to the normal doc on using Python in some flavor of Linux.

jmduke 14y ago
If you're looking to learn it for any actual, practical application, e.g. any kind of development that will be deployed on the web My first Python program was automating .csv creation based off of a bunch of arbitrary files in a folder. I did it as a marketing intern, after spending an hour convincing my boss that I could save the company literally tens of hours of time a month. I did it on a Windows XP box. A few months later, I changed my major to CS. If we want more people programming -- and being good at it -- saying 'hey use Linux lol' is not the way to go about it. Especially in a corporate environment.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- obviouslygreen 14y ago
  I did not say "hey use Linux lol." I'm not one of those people. I made a considered argument for learning Linux for people who actually want to get the most out of Python, so the very least you can do is not lump me in with chatspeakers. Also, your assertion that we (whoever that is) "want more people programming" is not one that I accept.
randlet 14y ago
" people who can't or won't move beyond that just are not likely to get much utility out of Python." You are absolutely wrong about this. Being able to use Python & Django/Flask/PyQT/wxPython/numpy/matplotlib etc in a corporate environment is a huge win. I have deployed multiple Python applications (both Django & wxPython gui apps) on Windows platforms with great success. (I work in a large Canadian hospital FWIW). Would I prefer to deploy on Linux? Absolutely. Am I delighted that I can still use Python at my Windows only day job? You bet.
- camus 14y ago
  you can set up a linux server with a virtual machine on Windows.
hayksaakian 14y ago
this comment reinforces the theory that comments on HN are not sorted only by their score in the current thread, but more significantly by the commenters' average or total karma. at time of posting, the parent's user had 3.74 avg karma, but the comment was already graying-out relative to comments that were lower down the thread.
camus 14y ago
Dont know why you got downvoted , you are telling the truth. Virtualization is so cheap and easy today, you can even set up a virtual server on a windows machine and serve content on a local network , no need to buy another machine running just linux : cost = 0.
- brudgers 14y ago
  The cost of becoming marginally proficient in Linux is substantial. Futhermore for most people the cost of Windows is already sunk, and even the cost of a new copy doesn't mean going hungry.
- obviouslygreen 14y ago
  My comment emphasized the fact that people will get more utility out of Python in a non-Windows environment. Instead of disagreeing, here we have several Windows Python users deciding that the comment deserved to be downvoted instead of simply discussed. I don't think that's the correct use of a downvote, but I expected it; not a big deal.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - tomku 14y ago
    Consider being less condescending. Condescension is like a gigantic flashing neon sign saying "I'm not worth arguing with because I'll just be a jerk to you if you reply". Your original post was absolutely dripping with it, and the one I'm directly replying to isn't really much better.
dewarrn1 14y ago
I'm an avid Python user. A beautiful aspect of the language is that, once installed (often as simple as running the default python.org MSI under Windows), the experience is essentially homogeneous whether the machine I'm running is Windows, Linux, BSD, OS X, etc. In short: preferences and politics aside, who cares about the underlying OS? Let's get things done!
brudgers 14y ago
A programmer wants to learn Python. He switches his OS from Windows to Linux. Now learning Linux stands between him and Python. The procedure described is problematic due to the nature of the Python community, not any shortcoming of Windows.
traeblain 14y ago
Completely disagree. That's what is so great about DataNitro's tool to begin with. You get people using a more powerful tool...in the tool they most often use (Excel), then you are off. Another reason is that Python is a great alternative to mathematical tools like MatLab, Maple, etc. And people's experience with these are most commonly in Windows. Having a python windows environment is key. I don't know how many people I've been able to get them to dump MatLab by showing them python and Spyder.
drivers99 14y ago
I just wrote my first Python program (a tetris clone using the pygame library). Not everyone using python is doing it for web development, as many comments to this article seem to believe. I happen to have written it on Windows, but it makes no difference because I'm sure the exact same code will work when I copy it to Linux. (I think I'll copy it to my new Raspberry Pi and see if it works. I'm sure it will.) quote: If you're looking to learn it for any actual, practical application, e.g. any kind of development that will be deployed on the web or any kind of native system scripting There's a lot more to computing than that. I personally have nearly zero interesting in web development at the moment.
chernevik 14y ago
I'm currently pressed into service by a client as a lightweight db admin on a Windows box. Scripting the various tasks in Python there lets me use a language I already know, with code transferable on the day they decide to shift to a Linux server.
cnvogel 14y ago
I think Python is an excellent choice for people transfering their know-how from other platforms (e.g. Linux) to Windows. The win32* libraries (as installed on a stock ActivePython .msi install) allow you to automate a lot of the windows platform, including a lot of the native api, implementing or controlling services, babysitting/killing/restarting windows tasks, talking to office applications, odbc databases, ... and I used it quite a lot to do automation tasks involving all these things. Python is a very nice glue-language, not only on Linux. And I've used it to much advantage on Windows. I've - talked to lab-equipment using provided .dlls (using ctypes) or serial ports (using py-serial) - talked to other applications via OLE (querying some windows-only document management system and retrieving data, querying Excel to get data out, remote-controlling Word to fill in forms) to interface with the Windows-only crowd that is prevalent in big corporations. - accessed databases over odbc ...and had most of my Unix-based tools, scripting know-how and methods (talking over network-sockets, using urllib, ascii-files, regular expressions) available to me, without resorting to ugly .bat-files, vb-script or vba. Also I did some rudimentary UI development using wxpython. I normally prefer coding under Linux, too, but I have to say, python under windows was not unpleasant at all.

jmduke 14y ago

If you're looking to learn it for any actual, practical application, e.g. any kind of development that will be deployed on the web My first Python program was automating .csv creation based off of a bunch of arbitrary files in a folder. I did it as a marketing intern, after spending an hour convincing my boss that I could save the company literally tens of hours of time a month. I did it on a Windows XP box. A few months later, I changed my major to CS. If we want more people programming -- and being good at it -- saying 'hey use Linux lol' is not the way to go about it. Especially in a corporate environment.

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
obviouslygreen 14y ago
I did not say "hey use Linux lol." I'm not one of those people. I made a considered argument for learning Linux for people who actually want to get the most out of Python, so the very least you can do is not lump me in with chatspeakers. Also, your assertion that we (whoever that is) "want more people programming" is not one that I accept.

randlet 14y ago

" people who can't or won't move beyond that just are not likely to get much utility out of Python." You are absolutely wrong about this. Being able to use Python & Django/Flask/PyQT/wxPython/numpy/matplotlib etc in a corporate environment is a huge win. I have deployed multiple Python applications (both Django & wxPython gui apps) on Windows platforms with great success. (I work in a large Canadian hospital FWIW). Would I prefer to deploy on Linux? Absolutely. Am I delighted that I can still use Python at my Windows only day job? You bet.

camus 14y ago
you can set up a linux server with a virtual machine on Windows.

hayksaakian 14y ago

this comment reinforces the theory that comments on HN are not sorted only by their score in the current thread, but more significantly by the commenters' average or total karma. at time of posting, the parent's user had 3.74 avg karma, but the comment was already graying-out relative to comments that were lower down the thread.

camus 14y ago

Dont know why you got downvoted , you are telling the truth. Virtualization is so cheap and easy today, you can even set up a virtual server on a windows machine and serve content on a local network , no need to buy another machine running just linux : cost = 0.

brudgers 14y ago
The cost of becoming marginally proficient in Linux is substantial. Futhermore for most people the cost of Windows is already sunk, and even the cost of a new copy doesn't mean going hungry.
obviouslygreen 14y ago
My comment emphasized the fact that people will get more utility out of Python in a non-Windows environment. Instead of disagreeing, here we have several Windows Python users deciding that the comment deserved to be downvoted instead of simply discussed. I don't think that's the correct use of a downvote, but I expected it; not a big deal.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- tomku 14y ago
  Consider being less condescending. Condescension is like a gigantic flashing neon sign saying "I'm not worth arguing with because I'll just be a jerk to you if you reply". Your original post was absolutely dripping with it, and the one I'm directly replying to isn't really much better.

dewarrn1 14y ago

I'm an avid Python user. A beautiful aspect of the language is that, once installed (often as simple as running the default python.org MSI under Windows), the experience is essentially homogeneous whether the machine I'm running is Windows, Linux, BSD, OS X, etc. In short: preferences and politics aside, who cares about the underlying OS? Let's get things done!

brudgers 14y ago

A programmer wants to learn Python. He switches his OS from Windows to Linux. Now learning Linux stands between him and Python. The procedure described is problematic due to the nature of the Python community, not any shortcoming of Windows.

traeblain 14y ago

Completely disagree. That's what is so great about DataNitro's tool to begin with. You get people using a more powerful tool...in the tool they most often use (Excel), then you are off. Another reason is that Python is a great alternative to mathematical tools like MatLab, Maple, etc. And people's experience with these are most commonly in Windows. Having a python windows environment is key. I don't know how many people I've been able to get them to dump MatLab by showing them python and Spyder.

drivers99 14y ago

I just wrote my first Python program (a tetris clone using the pygame library). Not everyone using python is doing it for web development, as many comments to this article seem to believe. I happen to have written it on Windows, but it makes no difference because I'm sure the exact same code will work when I copy it to Linux. (I think I'll copy it to my new Raspberry Pi and see if it works. I'm sure it will.) quote: If you're looking to learn it for any actual, practical application, e.g. any kind of development that will be deployed on the web or any kind of native system scripting There's a lot more to computing than that. I personally have nearly zero interesting in web development at the moment.

chernevik 14y ago

I'm currently pressed into service by a client as a lightweight db admin on a Windows box. Scripting the various tasks in Python there lets me use a language I already know, with code transferable on the day they decide to shift to a Linux server.

cnvogel 14y ago

I think Python is an excellent choice for people transfering their know-how from other platforms (e.g. Linux) to Windows. The win32* libraries (as installed on a stock ActivePython .msi install) allow you to automate a lot of the windows platform, including a lot of the native api, implementing or controlling services, babysitting/killing/restarting windows tasks, talking to office applications, odbc databases, ... and I used it quite a lot to do automation tasks involving all these things. Python is a very nice glue-language, not only on Linux. And I've used it to much advantage on Windows. I've - talked to lab-equipment using provided .dlls (using ctypes) or serial ports (using py-serial) - talked to other applications via OLE (querying some windows-only document management system and retrieving data, querying Excel to get data out, remote-controlling Word to fill in forms) to interface with the Windows-only crowd that is prevalent in big corporations. - accessed databases over odbc ...and had most of my Unix-based tools, scripting know-how and methods (talking over network-sockets, using urllib, ascii-files, regular expressions) available to me, without resorting to ugly .bat-files, vb-script or vba. Also I did some rudimentary UI development using wxpython. I normally prefer coding under Linux, too, but I have to say, python under windows was not unpleasant at all.