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So far I've already seen two comments dismissing this as an evil plot to drive down labor costs. I hear this argument a lot and I can't over emphasize my absolu

• peejaybee 14y ago
  I'm an open-borders type, and I think it's designed to drive labor costs down too. I think the tell here is the desire to expand the H-1B program, which I believe tends to lock people into one job and reduce their negotiating power.
  • 127001brewer 14y ago
    "... tends to lock people into one job and reduce their negotiating power." I thought this was the case, too, but is this a false belief?
    • peejaybee 14y ago
      I don't think the belief is false, else I wouldn't believe it, but I like to think I'm open to evidence that it is false.
    • wavefunction 14y ago
      The H1-B visa is granted to a company, not the individual. Employing someone via H1-B means the individual faces deportation in addition to losing their "great job." In my not so humble opinion, the H1-B program is a way for the industry to suppress wages for all potential hires.
      • 127001brewer 14y ago
        "... individual faces deportation ..." Is there a "grace period" or is an immediate deportation? (Obviously, I have not personally dealt with these issues so any information is greatly appreciated.)
        • sp_ 14y ago
          There is a grace period of (I think) 14 days if your visa expires. There is no legally defined grace period if you are fired before your visa expires.
        • wavefunction 14y ago
          Apparently, there is a process to qualify for a grace period (if the loss of employment can be anticipated in advance) but if a H1B worker is terminated, they face immediate deportation under the law.
• rayiner 14y ago
  > Excluding them from opportunity simply because they were born on the other side of some arbitrary, imaginary line is cruelty and selfishness beyond belief. National borders are not arbitrary, imaginary lines. One of the fundamental attributes of a sovereign entity is the ability to define "inside" and "outside" and control the flow between "inside" and "outside" just as that is one of the fundamental attributes of a organism. People everywhere are not the same. Those in your country are bound together with you in the social compact. Now, it's good and necessary to allow immigration to a certain extent, but in doing so the only consideration should be what maximizes the prosperity of those who are already part of the community. Anything else undermines the social compact, and those who lobby to systematically undermine the social compact in this way to depress wages and boost corporate profits verge on sociopathy.
  • ojbyrne 14y ago
    The "social compact" of the USA arguably includes "Give me your tired, your poor,your huddled masses..."
  • escaped_hn 14y ago
    sociopathy. i dont think it means what you think it means.
    • rayiner 14y ago
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissocial_personality_disorder: "2. Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;" Favoring those "in your tribe" over those "outside your tribe" is a classical, deeply embedded social norm.
      • davidw 14y ago
        > Favoring those "in your tribe" over those "outside your tribe" is a classical, deeply embedded social norm. Some of us dream of a world where we rise above some of our baser monkey instincts. "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream that one day, down in Alabama, with its vicious racists, with its governor having his lips dripping with the words of interposition and nullification; one day right there in Alabama, little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers." In any case, my tribe is not defined by where I happened to be born.
• schoper 14y ago
  What is the non-Asian minority percentage of the area where you live and raise your family? If you live in a city with a high non-Asian minority population (ie., lots of blacks and Hispanics), then I respect your opinion (though I disagree). You aren't asking anyone to put up with anything that you won't accept yourself.
• clicks 14y ago
  There is a flip-side to your argument you have failed to realize the existence of. The US is indisputably the most powerful nation on earth, with an elite workforce that combats any other's. Don't you think smart people in India are more needed by India itself, to take care of serious problems in India, than to optimize ad-serving algorithms in America?
  • wavefunction 14y ago
    I think America needs smart Indians in India more than it needs ANYONE optimizing Advertising algos
    • pm90 14y ago
      The thing is, and I apologize in advance for being blunt, it doesn't matter what you think. It does matter what the Indians think that they ought to do with their lives. Some of them might think that optimizing Advertising algos to make money makes them happy, others might find the challenge of solving real social problems exciting. That choice is theirs, individually, to make. I have friends who emigrated to the States and became wealthy doing quite routine work, but their children are now back in India, volunteering for social work. I'm not saying that's always the case, but it's not something we can (or should) force anyone to do.
  • davidw 14y ago
    Don't you think the people in question ought to have some say in the matter of where they would like to live and work? Or do you think their respective governments "know best"?
• CleanedStar 14y ago
  "There are human beings..." Please, what are we the biggest fools on the planet? This sounds like the people who'd get on the news and play some liberal middle class melodrama about why the U.S. needs to free the Iraqis. This is a naked power grab by billionaires and VCs and such. It is about as bare a naked power grab as can be imagined. Please take your mawkish nonsense somewhere else. "Cruelty and selfishness beyond belief". Yes break out the violins, some IIT graduate not being able to get an H1-B is the cruelest fate imaginable in the world. I'm glad Rabois, fresh from (accusations of) sexually harassing his underlings at Square, and Pincus, fresh from robbing his employees of their options have become such humanitarians. A bunch of billionaires make a power grab to fill their pockets with money, and you make a desperate, mawkish comment such as this. "Anyone who who dare question these billionaires humanitarian motives...are conspiracy theorists thinking its an 'evil plot'...'I can't over emphasize my absolute disgust'....barf.
• anon987 14y ago
  Could you explain why, in 2013, we need more physical immigration when we have remote work solutions like VOIP, instant messaging, e-mail, and video-conferencing? I'm a US citizen and I use these tools with my US company daily - why can't people in other countries use them too? Why MUST they come to the US? People are not being denied opportunity. It is not our fault that Facebook et all can't be bothered to recruit or recruit well in foreign countries. The opportunity to work for Facebook is still alive and well. Facebook could say "Hey Bill in India, we want to hire you. You can work at our India office." but for whatever reason Facebook would rather have Bill relocate to the USA. Why can't Facebook open an India office, scout for talent in India, and move them all to their India office? I scoff at your line about competing with the middle class. This has been happening for years: call it outsourcing, offshoring, whatever you like but it's been a thing for over a decade now. I KNOW I'm not privileged because I've watched big chunks of my company get outsourced so I understand I need to do my very best to keep my job. You can harp on "selfishness" all you want but that's the way the real world works. If you want to be the selfless one post your position, your salary, open it up for bids and see how long it takes for someone (US citizen or otherwise) to do your job for less.
• ownagefool 14y ago
  The problem with people like you is you're just as bad as the people you're complaining about. The world isn't black and white and such mechanisms can both be sought out based on greed and yet still have positive consequences. Indeed I agree with you on some level, the greater good is about everybody, not just the people living in your local vicinity, but are you sure that's what this is? You really think you're doing the greater good by stealing the best and brightest from countries that probably need them quite a bit more than your own, while ignoring the locals who just want a fair shake at a decent life? All of this in order that some have so much money that it has long become meaningless? That sounds a lot more like keeping the other countries down while lowering your own standard of living, which seems to match the ever growing rich / poor divide. I can't say I have a lot of experience working with H1B visas, but I have a wealth of experience working with immigrants in Britian from similar counties, and those people are almost exclusively middle class+ in order to have recieved the type of education that is desirable within the US. This may not offer quite the same quality of life that it does in the west, but they're hardly from a poverty stricken background. I don't know how to make the world a better place, but I doubt helping the likes of multi-billionaires become ever richer while they sit on that money until the end of time is really the way forward. The schemes are almost certainly abused to hire cheaper workers. The ridiculously unfulfillable adverts have been proving this for years.
• thwest 14y ago
  Driving down labor costs is evil until we transition to a post-scarcity economy where profits from reducing labor inputs aren't strictly returned to Capital.
• darwinosx 14y ago
  So what part of India are you from bhb916? Because that's the only way you think it is ok for Americans to suffer so people from other countries can take their jobs. Most of the visas go to consulting companies like Tata not individuals and American corporations are happy to let Americans suffer if their costs are cheaper. That is what this front group is about. If you are an American you should be ashamed of your comments.
• awkward 14y ago
  I know the issues around this, including brain drain from elite education, losing American dominance in the tech sphere, and the broad abuse that has been caused by the current set of regulations. I even have a colleague caught in an immigration snafu with his H1B right now, for leaving the country to visit his extended family. I fully agree with this program! Still, the optics of this campaign in particular are terrible. The headline and lede on all of the articles isn't anything wrong with the current system - it's that Zuck has signed on with it. The splash page is a shot of 19th century america, and then you can scroll down to see a list of billionaires. If the page was literally intended to produce a conspiracy focused follow-the-money response it wouldn't look much different.