4 ms·

Do you have any evidence at all of a coordinated attack against Bitcoin, or is this just an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory?

by dubfan 14y ago

sliverstorm 14y ago
Do you even have to ask?
DanBC 14y ago
Don't the DDoS attacks count as evidence?
- awj 14y ago
  What DDoS attacks? So far I've seen no compelling evidence that this is anything but high volumes of legitimate usage.
  - L0j1k 14y ago
    As a long-time (since 2010) miner, I can tell you first-hand that there are massive DDoS attacks taking place against not only MtGox (who has already described DDoS against their infrastructure) but the pools as well. In fact, Reddit's pool (MtRed.com) is completely DOWN at the moment because of a larger DDoS than we've ever seen. You can keep drinking the "everything's fine" koolaid, or get with the reality that currency manipulators have arrived on the Bitcoin train, and are using all the tools they have available to do their job.
    - kaoD 14y ago
      Nope. MtRed is down because they can't pay their miners. Variance is a bitch.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
    - Negitivefrags 14y ago
      I thought MtRed was down because they shut it down? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15929.msg1793833#msg1793833 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15929.msg1793833#msg... Also, just because MtGox had a DDoS in the past, doesn't mean they are having one now. I know first hand as someone who runs a service that has been DDoSed in the past that the moment you have server issues, all the users scream "They are being DDoSed!". My experience here is just as irrelevant as is your own.
      - L0j1k 14y ago
        This news reveals then that they lied. It was stated repeatedly in #mtred on freenode -- which is where I started lurking when my rig was unable to connect to the pool -- that they brought the pool down in reaction to a very strong DDoS, and that they were rewriting the payment algorithm in the interim. That being said, I'm not sure why you think they wouldn't be subject -- along with every piece of infrastructure in the bitcoin food chain -- to very large DDoS attacks. The currency manipulators are here to stay. To think otherwise is foolish and misguided, or hopeful beyond reason.
        Negitivefrags 14y ago
        The fact that every bit of infrastructure is being "attacked" at once suggests that it is not a DDoS attack to me. If the price starts going down, everyone will rush to their favorite bitcoin related site to see what is going on, even if they are not planning on panic selling. Would you say you have checked bitcoin related sites 5 times more than usual today? 10 times? If the regular users of a site all decide to use it five to ten times more than usual, it is very likely to cause some slowdown. On the other hand, if a single bitcoin related site was experiencing problems, that is when I suspect a targeted attack. Lastly, the only thing that mtgox announcing that they have been DDoSed in the past tells us is that they are willing to announce the fact that they are being DDoSed. This would seem to make it less likely that they are being DDoSed in the absence of such an announcement.
    - Kiro 14y ago
      You were wrong.
      - L0j1k 14y ago
        You can't read.
- ceejayoz 14y ago
  Depends on whether they're able to distinguish between a DDoS and a good old fashioned bank run.
pseudonym 14y ago
I think there's a lot of people who bought in during the last week or two that really want it to turn out to be an "attack". I haven't seen any actual stats or indication that that's actually the case, though. Likewise, Mt. Gox made mention of "Being DDOS'd" at certain points, but I'm a little skeptical of the claim given that their own charts show a huge jump in trade volume at around the same time. So no, there's no real "proof" yet of it being a DDOS or just lots of panicked traders, just lots of speculation (heh, heh).
- asperous 14y ago
  Most likely it is being ddossed... by people trying to sell, but that's just my opinion.
- krichman 14y ago
  There were many, many transactions with amounts of 0.02 BTC. I think P(attack|0.02 BTC * n) > P(~attack|0.02 BTC * n). The reality is probably six of panic sale, half a dozen of DDOS.
  - pseudonym 14y ago
    The thing with small BTC transactions is that it's more likely to be someone trying to prop up the market, not someone trying to DDOS it. Every time the price starts to go down you start to see a lot of very small buy transactions at a round number a fair amount above the current sell price start going in. The only reason for them appears to be just to keep the displayed "last sale" price on MtGox high.
trotsky 14y ago
that was the line mtgox was feeding people to explain why their trading platform gets so lagged out at times.
Wonderdonkey 14y ago
Tradehill reported it was a DDoS. http://www.itnews.com.au/News/339410,virtual-currency-bitcoin-in-freefall.aspx http://www.itnews.com.au/News/339410,virtual-currency-bitcoi...

Do you have any evidence at all of a coordinated attack against Bitcoin, or is this just an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory?

by dubfan 14y ago

Do you have any evidence at all of a coordinated attack against Bitcoin, or is this just an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory?

sliverstorm 14y ago

Do you even have to ask?

DanBC 14y ago

Don't the DDoS attacks count as evidence?

awj 14y ago
What DDoS attacks? So far I've seen no compelling evidence that this is anything but high volumes of legitimate usage.
- L0j1k 14y ago
  As a long-time (since 2010) miner, I can tell you first-hand that there are massive DDoS attacks taking place against not only MtGox (who has already described DDoS against their infrastructure) but the pools as well. In fact, Reddit's pool (MtRed.com) is completely DOWN at the moment because of a larger DDoS than we've ever seen. You can keep drinking the "everything's fine" koolaid, or get with the reality that currency manipulators have arrived on the Bitcoin train, and are using all the tools they have available to do their job.
  - kaoD 14y ago
    Nope. MtRed is down because they can't pay their miners. Variance is a bitch.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
  - Negitivefrags 14y ago
    I thought MtRed was down because they shut it down? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15929.msg1793833#msg1793833 https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=15929.msg1793833#msg... Also, just because MtGox had a DDoS in the past, doesn't mean they are having one now. I know first hand as someone who runs a service that has been DDoSed in the past that the moment you have server issues, all the users scream "They are being DDoSed!". My experience here is just as irrelevant as is your own.
    - L0j1k 14y ago
      This news reveals then that they lied. It was stated repeatedly in #mtred on freenode -- which is where I started lurking when my rig was unable to connect to the pool -- that they brought the pool down in reaction to a very strong DDoS, and that they were rewriting the payment algorithm in the interim. That being said, I'm not sure why you think they wouldn't be subject -- along with every piece of infrastructure in the bitcoin food chain -- to very large DDoS attacks. The currency manipulators are here to stay. To think otherwise is foolish and misguided, or hopeful beyond reason.
      - Negitivefrags 14y ago
        The fact that every bit of infrastructure is being "attacked" at once suggests that it is not a DDoS attack to me. If the price starts going down, everyone will rush to their favorite bitcoin related site to see what is going on, even if they are not planning on panic selling. Would you say you have checked bitcoin related sites 5 times more than usual today? 10 times? If the regular users of a site all decide to use it five to ten times more than usual, it is very likely to cause some slowdown. On the other hand, if a single bitcoin related site was experiencing problems, that is when I suspect a targeted attack. Lastly, the only thing that mtgox announcing that they have been DDoSed in the past tells us is that they are willing to announce the fact that they are being DDoSed. This would seem to make it less likely that they are being DDoSed in the absence of such an announcement.
  - Kiro 14y ago
    You were wrong.
    - L0j1k 14y ago
      You can't read.
ceejayoz 14y ago
Depends on whether they're able to distinguish between a DDoS and a good old fashioned bank run.

pseudonym 14y ago

I think there's a lot of people who bought in during the last week or two that really want it to turn out to be an "attack". I haven't seen any actual stats or indication that that's actually the case, though. Likewise, Mt. Gox made mention of "Being DDOS'd" at certain points, but I'm a little skeptical of the claim given that their own charts show a huge jump in trade volume at around the same time. So no, there's no real "proof" yet of it being a DDOS or just lots of panicked traders, just lots of speculation (heh, heh).

asperous 14y ago
Most likely it is being ddossed... by people trying to sell, but that's just my opinion.
krichman 14y ago
There were many, many transactions with amounts of 0.02 BTC. I think P(attack|0.02 BTC * n) > P(~attack|0.02 BTC * n). The reality is probably six of panic sale, half a dozen of DDOS.
- pseudonym 14y ago
  The thing with small BTC transactions is that it's more likely to be someone trying to prop up the market, not someone trying to DDOS it. Every time the price starts to go down you start to see a lot of very small buy transactions at a round number a fair amount above the current sell price start going in. The only reason for them appears to be just to keep the displayed "last sale" price on MtGox high.

trotsky 14y ago

that was the line mtgox was feeding people to explain why their trading platform gets so lagged out at times.

Wonderdonkey 14y ago

Tradehill reported it was a DDoS. http://www.itnews.com.au/News/339410,virtual-currency-bitcoin-in-freefall.aspx http://www.itnews.com.au/News/339410,virtual-currency-bitcoi...