7 ms·

Where are all the feminists now? This is the perfect example of double-standards implied by women. Imagine an alternative scenario where men could rate their f

by neya 14y ago

Where are all the feminists now? This is the perfect example of double-standards implied by women. Imagine an alternative scenario where men could rate their female counterparts on the basis of their 'assets' as defined by some vague methodology. Imagine how much fire under men would be, with ALL men being broadly labelled as sexists because this app was targeted at men. I am seriously asking - Where are all the feminists now? And their blind-folded feminism?? Especially the ones who know this app..

jimzvz 14y ago
>I am seriously asking - Where are all the feminists now? Especially the ones who know this app.. Don't worry, they are certainly ready with the argument that it is the "patriarchy" that makes this app acceptable but not the reverse.
- duaneb 14y ago
  Most (all?) women I know who identify as feminist activists would not support this app, and I highly doubt anyone who would is really a feminist. This is equally harmful to women.
- cheez 14y ago
  I thought this was amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80 "A woman is rude and abusive? PATRIRACHY!"
- Steuard 14y ago
  As I said to the previous poster, if you have a shred of evidence that "the feminists" consider this app to be acceptable (not just "less bad"), you should share it now. If you don't, then you might want to pause for a few minutes and seriously ask yourself why you said what you did. Because from my experience, opposing a service like this is a core value of feminism. (It may not be seen as a top priority, but that's a radically different statement.)
  - jimzvz 14y ago
    I think you and duaneb have misunderstood my comment. I do not mean that they will say that it is acceptable to them because of the patriarchy, they will say that it is acceptable to society because of the patriarchy. In other words, they will blame the existence and acceptance of this app on the patriarchy and not the individuals who created it and accept it.
    - Steuard 14y ago
      Ah, thanks for the clarification. (I'm not sure that I understand your point, but at least it's not the basic misunderstanding of feminism that I thought it was.) (This is a reflection of the social influences that feminism labels "the patriarchy", right? Even though it's individual people making choices that implement those social trends. I've never considered the two to be mutually exclusive.)
    - mnicole 14y ago
      Men created and promoted this app, and curious people it is targeted to are going to try it. What is your point?
jtbigwoo 14y ago
They're here: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/02/07/lulu_app_for_rating_men_it_s_just_as_creepy_as_rating_women.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/02/07/lulu_app_for... and here: http://jezebel.com/5982867/the-creepy-new-yelp-for-boys-and-other-apps-for-your-genitals http://jezebel.com/5982867/the-creepy-new-yelp-for-boys-and-... Do you not know how to use google?
- marknutter 14y ago
  I think the OP is asking where the "shitstorm" is.
  - subsystem 14y ago
    Why would there be a shitstorm? That only happens when the self-proclaimed defenders of the male gender feels threatened by someone challenging their world view.
  - neya 14y ago
    Exactly. Where's the twitter hashhtags and the feminism organizations[1] jumping around with 'yaay! we gotta chance to make this a shitstorm!'[2]? [1] http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2013/01/ces-booth-babes-sexist-ads-trigger-notbuyingit-hashtag.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2013/01/ces-booth-babes... [2] http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/20/playhaven-developer-fired-for-making-sexual-jokes-after-sendgrids-developer-evangelist-outs-him-on-twitter/ http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/20/playhaven-developer-fired-...
- neya 14y ago
  Nope, a couple of unpopular blog posts is not something I wanted to see. I could have googled those myself. I was expecting a 'rage' unleashed - with just one question - 'How dare they do this!?' "How dare they do this to Gender 'x'" The same rage you saw previously when this happened to women.
  - jtbigwoo 14y ago
    Haha, Slate and Jezebel are unpopular. Nice trolling. (Oh crap, now I'm feeding the troll now, aren't I?)
Steuard 14y ago
Right here. Pissed off that this app exists. But recognizing that it's a lower priority than a heck of a lot of other things in our society. (I've got a top level post going into this in more detail.) Opposing this type of service looks to me like a classic part of feminism, no question. If you have specific evidence that "the feminists" do not oppose this sort of thing, now would be a great time to share.
- loceng 14y ago
  Would like to read when you've posted it. Anywhere I can look for it?
  - Steuard 14y ago
    Sorry, I was unclear: a top level comment, elsewhere in this thread.
yarrel 14y ago
The effects of male and female versions of this application would not be the same. Different subjects, in various senses of the word. And you don't have to imagine that alternative scenario. It's how men generally treat women.
- MrScruff 14y ago
  It's how men generally treat women. Do you have anything to back this up?
- neya 14y ago
  >It's how men generally treat women. Congratulations, you've now been promoted to sexism level - infinity. What you said above is sexism by itself. You are labeling an entire gender of species for what a percentage of species is accused of doing. I'm disgusted by people like you who favor one gender over the other and my comment exactly addresses people like you!
sophacles 14y ago
First of all, there is no such thing as feminists in the way you imply: it is category, not a strict set of beliefs. Some types of feminism endorse this sort of thing, because they are sex positive - they would be ok with any app that allows the ranking of people in sex terms, some would have a problem with this app because it doesn't include women rankings. Some would have a problem with a men ranking women app but not this one, because when you go down to the local bar (in most places) you can hear men loudly talking about what women are sluts and which are sweet girls, and if how to get them, but women having those conversations are loudly labeled snobby or bitches - so it evens out the labeling. Basically I'm saying, you're trying to set fire to a strawman.
erikpukinskis 14y ago
I'm a feminist. I'm not outraged. If I was outraged because destructive things exist, I would be a bundle of rage 24 hours a day and never get anything done. What enrages me is sensible people supporting sexism, and no one I respect supports this. I also am not driven by blind principle, I focus on practicality. As a futurist, I don't see this catching on, let alone abuse of if becoming a big problem. Why would I put energy into solving a vaguely possible future violence when there is documented violence happening right now? If this app were supporting and accelerating an existing tragedy of men being unable to control their reputations, this might be worth getting angry about.
- neya 14y ago
  Some of your points are valid. With all due respect, you should be outraged too, no? Because a LOT of feminists were outraged when similar things happened to women. My question is exactly addressed to you: Why are you outraged when it happens to gender X and why do you dismiss it when it happens to gender Y, saying things like "it's not a big problem", "we have many other things to worry about in the society" (as another commenter posted, etc.) Assuming that gender X can withstand all this but not gender Y is sexism by itself. I appreciate your positive look on life, in general, but you are not being fair here. >As a futurist, I don't see this catching on, let alone abuse of if becoming a big problem. This is exactly the kind of mentality we hate. Supporting something based on the drama around it is the worst thing a feminist like you can do. Does this mean isolated incidents with no drama can be safely ignored? I think it's a poor methodology. This is not about violence. It's about the identities of people who never opted for something. So, you're saying something along the lines of "I don't care because it's not a serious issue (yet). And you have to deal with it." Which is unfair. How would you like to see your face on a pornographic site uploaded without your consent? Wouldn't you and other feminists be outraged? That's exactly the feeling we've got right now, because it's our identity at stake. And you can't just ask us to live with it, just because there's no drama around it. As a feminist, if this is the mindset with which you and your friends are working towards sexism, then, I think you would be contributing more to sexism than eradicating it. And this is disgusting. Someone should probably write a blog post about this mindset, so people like you can stop calling yourselves feminists, representing other genuine feminists in the wrong way.
smosher 14y ago
Here. And I find all this hilarious.
mamoswined 14y ago
You are looking for feminists to be outraged on Hacker News? Yes, a place known to attract many female users. Especially women that would encounter Lulu. Or not. I don't think this is something that my friends or I would ever encounter outside reading Jezebel, which legitimately is a popular site for women. It seems like a gross app to me, one that objectifies men and has the potential to be abused by women with a grudge.

by neya 14y ago

jimzvz 14y ago

>I am seriously asking - Where are all the feminists now? Especially the ones who know this app.. Don't worry, they are certainly ready with the argument that it is the "patriarchy" that makes this app acceptable but not the reverse.

duaneb 14y ago
Most (all?) women I know who identify as feminist activists would not support this app, and I highly doubt anyone who would is really a feminist. This is equally harmful to women.
cheez 14y ago
I thought this was amazing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvYyGTmcP80 "A woman is rude and abusive? PATRIRACHY!"
Steuard 14y ago
As I said to the previous poster, if you have a shred of evidence that "the feminists" consider this app to be acceptable (not just "less bad"), you should share it now. If you don't, then you might want to pause for a few minutes and seriously ask yourself why you said what you did. Because from my experience, opposing a service like this is a core value of feminism. (It may not be seen as a top priority, but that's a radically different statement.)
- jimzvz 14y ago
  I think you and duaneb have misunderstood my comment. I do not mean that they will say that it is acceptable to them because of the patriarchy, they will say that it is acceptable to society because of the patriarchy. In other words, they will blame the existence and acceptance of this app on the patriarchy and not the individuals who created it and accept it.
  - Steuard 14y ago
    Ah, thanks for the clarification. (I'm not sure that I understand your point, but at least it's not the basic misunderstanding of feminism that I thought it was.) (This is a reflection of the social influences that feminism labels "the patriarchy", right? Even though it's individual people making choices that implement those social trends. I've never considered the two to be mutually exclusive.)
  - mnicole 14y ago
    Men created and promoted this app, and curious people it is targeted to are going to try it. What is your point?

jtbigwoo 14y ago

They're here: http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/02/07/lulu_app_for_rating_men_it_s_just_as_creepy_as_rating_women.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor/2013/02/07/lulu_app_for... and here: http://jezebel.com/5982867/the-creepy-new-yelp-for-boys-and-other-apps-for-your-genitals http://jezebel.com/5982867/the-creepy-new-yelp-for-boys-and-... Do you not know how to use google?

marknutter 14y ago
I think the OP is asking where the "shitstorm" is.
- subsystem 14y ago
  Why would there be a shitstorm? That only happens when the self-proclaimed defenders of the male gender feels threatened by someone challenging their world view.
- neya 14y ago
  Exactly. Where's the twitter hashhtags and the feminism organizations[1] jumping around with 'yaay! we gotta chance to make this a shitstorm!'[2]? [1] http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2013/01/ces-booth-babes-sexist-ads-trigger-notbuyingit-hashtag.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/yourcommunity/2013/01/ces-booth-babes... [2] http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/20/playhaven-developer-fired-for-making-sexual-jokes-after-sendgrids-developer-evangelist-outs-him-on-twitter/ http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/20/playhaven-developer-fired-...
neya 14y ago
Nope, a couple of unpopular blog posts is not something I wanted to see. I could have googled those myself. I was expecting a 'rage' unleashed - with just one question - 'How dare they do this!?' "How dare they do this to Gender 'x'" The same rage you saw previously when this happened to women.
- jtbigwoo 14y ago
  Haha, Slate and Jezebel are unpopular. Nice trolling. (Oh crap, now I'm feeding the troll now, aren't I?)

Steuard 14y ago

Right here. Pissed off that this app exists. But recognizing that it's a lower priority than a heck of a lot of other things in our society. (I've got a top level post going into this in more detail.) Opposing this type of service looks to me like a classic part of feminism, no question. If you have specific evidence that "the feminists" do not oppose this sort of thing, now would be a great time to share.

loceng 14y ago
Would like to read when you've posted it. Anywhere I can look for it?
- Steuard 14y ago
  Sorry, I was unclear: a top level comment, elsewhere in this thread.

yarrel 14y ago

The effects of male and female versions of this application would not be the same. Different subjects, in various senses of the word. And you don't have to imagine that alternative scenario. It's how men generally treat women.

MrScruff 14y ago
It's how men generally treat women. Do you have anything to back this up?
neya 14y ago
>It's how men generally treat women. Congratulations, you've now been promoted to sexism level - infinity. What you said above is sexism by itself. You are labeling an entire gender of species for what a percentage of species is accused of doing. I'm disgusted by people like you who favor one gender over the other and my comment exactly addresses people like you!

sophacles 14y ago

First of all, there is no such thing as feminists in the way you imply: it is category, not a strict set of beliefs. Some types of feminism endorse this sort of thing, because they are sex positive - they would be ok with any app that allows the ranking of people in sex terms, some would have a problem with this app because it doesn't include women rankings. Some would have a problem with a men ranking women app but not this one, because when you go down to the local bar (in most places) you can hear men loudly talking about what women are sluts and which are sweet girls, and if how to get them, but women having those conversations are loudly labeled snobby or bitches - so it evens out the labeling. Basically I'm saying, you're trying to set fire to a strawman.

erikpukinskis 14y ago

I'm a feminist. I'm not outraged. If I was outraged because destructive things exist, I would be a bundle of rage 24 hours a day and never get anything done. What enrages me is sensible people supporting sexism, and no one I respect supports this. I also am not driven by blind principle, I focus on practicality. As a futurist, I don't see this catching on, let alone abuse of if becoming a big problem. Why would I put energy into solving a vaguely possible future violence when there is documented violence happening right now? If this app were supporting and accelerating an existing tragedy of men being unable to control their reputations, this might be worth getting angry about.

neya 14y ago
Some of your points are valid. With all due respect, you should be outraged too, no? Because a LOT of feminists were outraged when similar things happened to women. My question is exactly addressed to you: Why are you outraged when it happens to gender X and why do you dismiss it when it happens to gender Y, saying things like "it's not a big problem", "we have many other things to worry about in the society" (as another commenter posted, etc.) Assuming that gender X can withstand all this but not gender Y is sexism by itself. I appreciate your positive look on life, in general, but you are not being fair here. >As a futurist, I don't see this catching on, let alone abuse of if becoming a big problem. This is exactly the kind of mentality we hate. Supporting something based on the drama around it is the worst thing a feminist like you can do. Does this mean isolated incidents with no drama can be safely ignored? I think it's a poor methodology. This is not about violence. It's about the identities of people who never opted for something. So, you're saying something along the lines of "I don't care because it's not a serious issue (yet). And you have to deal with it." Which is unfair. How would you like to see your face on a pornographic site uploaded without your consent? Wouldn't you and other feminists be outraged? That's exactly the feeling we've got right now, because it's our identity at stake. And you can't just ask us to live with it, just because there's no drama around it. As a feminist, if this is the mindset with which you and your friends are working towards sexism, then, I think you would be contributing more to sexism than eradicating it. And this is disgusting. Someone should probably write a blog post about this mindset, so people like you can stop calling yourselves feminists, representing other genuine feminists in the wrong way.

smosher 14y ago

Here. And I find all this hilarious.

mamoswined 14y ago

You are looking for feminists to be outraged on Hacker News? Yes, a place known to attract many female users. Especially women that would encounter Lulu. Or not. I don't think this is something that my friends or I would ever encounter outside reading Jezebel, which legitimately is a popular site for women. It seems like a gross app to me, one that objectifies men and has the potential to be abused by women with a grudge.