5 ms·

Are you sure you wouldn't say the same thing if it was 1975 and they'd made a Basic interpreter for a toy computer used by a few hobbyists? Big things often st

by pg 14y ago

Are you sure you wouldn't say the same thing if it was 1975 and they'd made a Basic interpreter for a toy computer used by a few hobbyists? Big things often start small. In fact, usually start small. And in any case it's just mean of you to piss all over these guys' efforts. It makes me embarrassed for HN when people launch something new, and this is the sort of response they get.

deleted 14y ago
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jgrall 14y ago
When pg comes to your defense, it's a good day ;)
aklofas 14y ago
There is a difference between building software for us (developers/hobbiests/etc) and building software for them (consumers). We will tinker, extend, reverse, tweak, hack and out will come something new for other people to build upon, possibly ground-shaking like the Basic interpreter. On the other hand, consumers will use it a few times, maybe click on an ad, and forget about it. I believe that frisco is lamenting the scopelessness of the project, which I do as well.
adamgravitis 14y ago
On the other hand, this issue reminds me of Peter Thiel's TedX talk, where he makes the argument that real technological invention may be slowing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOB7nezuQ7g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOB7nezuQ7g I agree assisting people to reach the airport on-time may morph into a larger corporate vision, but I disagree it's likely to contribute to solving cancer, making better fuel, or reaching strong AI. ...And it's arguably a distraction of rare talent from that calibre of problem.
- pg 14y ago
  No initial product is likely to contribute to solving those problems, because most initial products don't lead to anything. Conversely, a startup that grows sufficiently big can contribute to the solution of almost any problem, including those you mention.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
iloveyouocean 14y ago
Totally agree. When I first joined HN (2100+ days ago) there were posts nearly every day of the 'Show HN: My new startup/website/app/etc' type and the thoughtful feedback and comments were genuinely helpful and insightful. It wasn't uncommon for multiple people to actually take screenshots and rework design elements, provide thorough user interaction impressions and potential improvements, offer assistance in numerous ways (debugging, introductions, alpha/beta testing, etc.), and be generally supportive. HN truly seemed like a community of semi-collaborative or at least fully helpful hackers. It saddens me that the most common response these days seems to be some version of 'Let me list all the reasons why this is crap.' What happened?
- matb33 14y ago
  Maybe it's a matter of adjusting some copy... "Show HN" was appropriate when HN consisted of its higher quality membership. You were showing your project to people who were more likely to provide better quality feedback. Now that the population has grown, there are more commenters and more Show HNs, yet the presentation hasn't changed to accommodate this (same number of posts per page, same comment layout despite more comments, etc). Maybe something like "Review HN"? Whatever it would be, it may be time to get more specific. Ultimately you're trying to filter out unhelpful comments. Those will always appear, but now there's just more of them in the same space...
- chacham15 14y ago
  Wow, that sounds like a dream for a startup. I'm getting fairly close to releasing a beta and people like that would be awesome. In fact, I've been thinking that maybe if I charge a nominal amount (a dollar or something similar) to try the beta, it might act as a filter for these kinds of people. Lately, however, the cynic in me is saying that I'll just end up with no one :(.

by pg 14y ago

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

jgrall 14y ago

When pg comes to your defense, it's a good day ;)

aklofas 14y ago

There is a difference between building software for us (developers/hobbiests/etc) and building software for them (consumers). We will tinker, extend, reverse, tweak, hack and out will come something new for other people to build upon, possibly ground-shaking like the Basic interpreter. On the other hand, consumers will use it a few times, maybe click on an ad, and forget about it. I believe that frisco is lamenting the scopelessness of the project, which I do as well.

adamgravitis 14y ago

On the other hand, this issue reminds me of Peter Thiel's TedX talk, where he makes the argument that real technological invention may be slowing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOB7nezuQ7g http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HOB7nezuQ7g I agree assisting people to reach the airport on-time may morph into a larger corporate vision, but I disagree it's likely to contribute to solving cancer, making better fuel, or reaching strong AI. ...And it's arguably a distraction of rare talent from that calibre of problem.

pg 14y ago
No initial product is likely to contribute to solving those problems, because most initial products don't lead to anything. Conversely, a startup that grows sufficiently big can contribute to the solution of almost any problem, including those you mention.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

iloveyouocean 14y ago

Totally agree. When I first joined HN (2100+ days ago) there were posts nearly every day of the 'Show HN: My new startup/website/app/etc' type and the thoughtful feedback and comments were genuinely helpful and insightful. It wasn't uncommon for multiple people to actually take screenshots and rework design elements, provide thorough user interaction impressions and potential improvements, offer assistance in numerous ways (debugging, introductions, alpha/beta testing, etc.), and be generally supportive. HN truly seemed like a community of semi-collaborative or at least fully helpful hackers. It saddens me that the most common response these days seems to be some version of 'Let me list all the reasons why this is crap.' What happened?

matb33 14y ago
Maybe it's a matter of adjusting some copy... "Show HN" was appropriate when HN consisted of its higher quality membership. You were showing your project to people who were more likely to provide better quality feedback. Now that the population has grown, there are more commenters and more Show HNs, yet the presentation hasn't changed to accommodate this (same number of posts per page, same comment layout despite more comments, etc). Maybe something like "Review HN"? Whatever it would be, it may be time to get more specific. Ultimately you're trying to filter out unhelpful comments. Those will always appear, but now there's just more of them in the same space...
chacham15 14y ago
Wow, that sounds like a dream for a startup. I'm getting fairly close to releasing a beta and people like that would be awesome. In fact, I've been thinking that maybe if I charge a nominal amount (a dollar or something similar) to try the beta, it might act as a filter for these kinds of people. Lately, however, the cynic in me is saying that I'll just end up with no one :(.