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My experience is similar: From time to time I partake in the HN freelancer thread. Not that I ever got any business out of it. I still think in principle it wo
by Udo 14y ago
My experience is similar:
From time to time I partake in the HN freelancer thread. Not that I ever got any business out of it. I still think in principle it would be nice to do business with fellow HNers, that's why I keep trying it.
Usually, I get about 2-3 inquiries per month from the Freelancer thread - by far most of these from people who apparently came through a search engine and aren't HN users at all. Of these, 2 are general carpet bombing mails, asking me for things that I didn't advertise and can't/won't provide ("would you like to move to Berlin and work as an entry-level tech support person?"). Sometimes, that leaves one real contact.
Here's where things start to get on my nerves: there will typically be an exchange of 3 to 4 emails back and forth. It starts with a project introduction (which is often excellently detailed), then we're moving on to references and code samples, then we're talking fees (even though I explicitly state them on my profile website), after which it's all "I'll totally do this project with you", and after that: nothing. In two cases, there were even 30+ minutes Skype conversations, all for nothing of course.
Last month I decided to do something different, be more proactive: I sent out emails to people looking for freelancers on HN. Same procedure (see above), same results. But I got something very interesting out of it: a few of them told me they received upwards of 30 applicants! Holy crap, even for the lamer job postings!
It's now clear to me why the freelancer thread doesn't work, at least for "normal" HNers like me. As a freelancer, there is so much competition, the chances of success are exceedingly slim. Companies are drowning in applicants. Of course they're going to choose either the cheapest one, or if you're lucky enough to inhabit something of a niche, the most famous one.
So why are they not responding? Why are they just breaking off communication after a short exchange? Because they don't have any reason to value our time. There are just so many of us.
- coolsunglasses 14y agoReading this made me despair. Getting contract work online should be a last resort.
- Udo 14y agoI don't really need it, it's just a point of interest. But yeah, I feel bad for people who have to live on this. Especially those with decent skills, it's very hard to compete in an environment that is polluted to the brim. It's the same with commercial freelancer sites, by the way. Tons of lame projects, many of them quite shady or illegal, with absolute rock-bottom budgets and dozens of "developers" fighting over scraps. Experiences like this make me think our profession truly is in the toilet right now. A view weeks ago I chided a commenter on HN for saying the software employment situation is a buyer's market and thus he has trouble treating programmers with respect. I can see why that is, though.
- coolsunglasses 14y agoThis is what I'm doing to put food on the table until one of my business projects gets rolling. Dipping your toe in the water and exclaiming how it's so awful isn't constructive and just unnerves other people.
- Udo 14y ago> Getting contract work online should be a last resort. I obviously totally misunderstood this initial statement of yours somehow. For what it's worth I just wanted to share my experiences. It's absolutely possible that I'm the only person who saw these problems and everybody else is having a positively marvelous time - that's why it's called anecdotal evidence. If that's true: sorry, I didn't want to give the wrong impression.
- namdnay 14y agoIf the water is so polluted you burnt your toe, I think it's a very good thing to warn others about it!
- GFischer 14y agoWhat's the first resort? For example if, like in my case, you live in the middle of nowhere or with low expectations of pay (Montevideo, Uruguay).
- IsaacL 14y agoI've seen the world of freelance hiring from both sides, which gave me an interesting perspective. As a freelancer myself, I know how annoying it is when your bank account is dwindling, you need work, but people take so long to get back to you, or don't get back to you at all. It also hurts that it is still a sellers market and you know if you hold out you'll find someone willing to pay a decent rate, but you spend all your meetings talking to people who want you to work for bargain basement prices. On the other side - at one point I was working on a hand-curated freelancer marketplace. We posted jobs on other freelance sites to recruit the first few users for our platform. I got tons of responses, usually at least 50 for each posting. Some were clearly copy pasted, some had actually taken time to write out detailed responses. I did try and reply to everyone to tell if we wanted them on board or not, but it took a lot of time (the interface makes messaging lots of people slow). Morally I should have just spent an hour or two writing one liner replies to everyone, but the bigger issue was just the thought of all these desperate people looking for work was too depressing. So I preferred not to think about it and simply not reply to the people we weren't going to bring on board. Was it acceptable? No, of course not. But I just wanted to show how the world looks when you're faced with a resume deluge.