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> The BIG problem with SimCity wasn't that it had online features (those are great), but that it did not let you play offline for any good reason, which annoyed

by lutusp 14y ago

> The BIG problem with SimCity wasn't that it had online features (those are great), but that it did not let you play offline for any good reason, which annoyed the heck out of people. And how does that example prove anything? It proves exactly what I intended -- that, contrary to an earlier point, Web-based technologies aren't being embraced enthusiastically, that there are circumstances in which they're not the right approach. >> Cloud-based storage and Web-based applications have nothing to do with each other? > They don't. When you post a refutation, it's customary to offer some evidence for your position. You don't -- your reply wanders off to a different topic. > So no, web-based and cloud-based aren't the same thing. First, I never said that. Second, Web-based and cloud-based technologies are integral to each other. The majority of Web-based applications store their data in the cloud.

comex 14y ago
> It proves exactly what I intended -- that, contrary to an earlier point, Web-based technologies aren't being embraced enthusiastically, that there are circumstances in which they're not the right approach. The outrage about SimCity was largely based on the fact that a single player game fundamentally should not need to connect to a server (SimCity has some interactions between neighboring cities, but they're not key to the game and critics think they should be optional), but a collaborative document editor is inherently "multiplayer" - though being web based might make it harder (but not impossible) to keep a stale copy of the document while offline, the vast majority of uses for such an editor expect everyone to be online and synchronizing changes. There are circumstances where web-based is not the right approach, but this is probably not one of them.
daleharvey 14y ago
>> So no, web-based and cloud-based aren't the same thing. >First, I never said that > If you adopt Web-based applications, you're also adopting cloud-based storage at least temporarily. Some web based applications use cloud storage, some dont, they arent completely independent of each other and utterly not 'integral' it doesnt need to be proved past http://diveintohtml5.info/storage.html http://diveintohtml5.info/storage.html > If we define "online" as "connected to a network", then yes, Web-based applications require one to be online. And most Web-based applications require an Internet connection. Again you are confusing history with truth, web application do not require you do be online to work http://diveintohtml5.info/offline.html http://diveintohtml5.info/offline.html
- lutusp 14y ago
  > ... web application do not require you do be online to work ... What?, If "online" means connected to a network, then yes, Web-based applications require you to be online, and the majority of those require you to be connected to the internet, both to access the application and to store and retrieve data.
  - daleharvey 14y ago
    no they do not, I linked to a very basic overview of some of the technologies used to have web applications work offline (the storage one is also relevant). There is a relatively huge ecosystem that isnt touched upon in that article, offline web apps are very much a thing. I have been using a mobile phone whose OS(UI/App layer) was written entirely in web technologies, it most certainly doesnt turn into a brick when I dont have a data connection. It is fine to not know these things, but its not a very good idea to be publically dismissing technologies you obviously arent very familiar with, and when people point out that you are wrong you should probably do some research before defending it.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - lutusp 14y ago
      > offline web apps are very much a thing. SO your argument in favor of online apps is that there are offline apps. Knock yourself out. BTW "offline Web app" is a contradiction in terms. > It is fine to not know these things, but its not a very good idea to be publically dismissing technologies you obviously arent very familiar with ... That's your problem, not mine -- I posted all the evidence, you posted contentless arguments. > when people point out that you are wrong Never happened. I proved my points with online references. You argued. > you should probably do some research before defending it. Look at the thread. I posed all the online evidence for my position. It is a fact that there are serious legal issues with cloud storage and reliance on Web apps. It is a fact that IT is much less enthusiastic about these technologies than business people are, the latter being less familiar with the shortcomings and vulnerabilities. I linked to the evidence for these points. You argued.

by lutusp 14y ago

comex 14y ago

> It proves exactly what I intended -- that, contrary to an earlier point, Web-based technologies aren't being embraced enthusiastically, that there are circumstances in which they're not the right approach. The outrage about SimCity was largely based on the fact that a single player game fundamentally should not need to connect to a server (SimCity has some interactions between neighboring cities, but they're not key to the game and critics think they should be optional), but a collaborative document editor is inherently "multiplayer" - though being web based might make it harder (but not impossible) to keep a stale copy of the document while offline, the vast majority of uses for such an editor expect everyone to be online and synchronizing changes. There are circumstances where web-based is not the right approach, but this is probably not one of them.

daleharvey 14y ago

>> So no, web-based and cloud-based aren't the same thing. >First, I never said that > If you adopt Web-based applications, you're also adopting cloud-based storage at least temporarily. Some web based applications use cloud storage, some dont, they arent completely independent of each other and utterly not 'integral' it doesnt need to be proved past http://diveintohtml5.info/storage.html http://diveintohtml5.info/storage.html > If we define "online" as "connected to a network", then yes, Web-based applications require one to be online. And most Web-based applications require an Internet connection. Again you are confusing history with truth, web application do not require you do be online to work http://diveintohtml5.info/offline.html http://diveintohtml5.info/offline.html

lutusp 14y ago
> ... web application do not require you do be online to work ... What?, If "online" means connected to a network, then yes, Web-based applications require you to be online, and the majority of those require you to be connected to the internet, both to access the application and to store and retrieve data.
- daleharvey 14y ago
  no they do not, I linked to a very basic overview of some of the technologies used to have web applications work offline (the storage one is also relevant). There is a relatively huge ecosystem that isnt touched upon in that article, offline web apps are very much a thing. I have been using a mobile phone whose OS(UI/App layer) was written entirely in web technologies, it most certainly doesnt turn into a brick when I dont have a data connection. It is fine to not know these things, but its not a very good idea to be publically dismissing technologies you obviously arent very familiar with, and when people point out that you are wrong you should probably do some research before defending it.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - lutusp 14y ago
    > offline web apps are very much a thing. SO your argument in favor of online apps is that there are offline apps. Knock yourself out. BTW "offline Web app" is a contradiction in terms. > It is fine to not know these things, but its not a very good idea to be publically dismissing technologies you obviously arent very familiar with ... That's your problem, not mine -- I posted all the evidence, you posted contentless arguments. > when people point out that you are wrong Never happened. I proved my points with online references. You argued. > you should probably do some research before defending it. Look at the thread. I posed all the online evidence for my position. It is a fact that there are serious legal issues with cloud storage and reliance on Web apps. It is a fact that IT is much less enthusiastic about these technologies than business people are, the latter being less familiar with the shortcomings and vulnerabilities. I linked to the evidence for these points. You argued.