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Here is my feedback. Perhaps the marketing of "persona" to consumers should take a backseat. When I signed in to http://123done.org/ http://123done.org/ the po

Here is my feedback. Perhaps the marketing of "persona" to consumers should take a backseat. When I signed in to http://123done.org/ http://123done.org/ the pop up* showing "sign in with persona" confused me for a moment. For a moment, I thought.. "but I do not have a persona account" If there is a way for users to just sign in with their email without telling them how it is done, I am sure there will be even less friction. Of course, the persona architecture could still be marketed to developers for integration purposes. But for users, let it just be like magic. PS: I did not see the Firebase implementation they spoke of. I am still told to make sure my password has 8 characters. https://www.firebase.com/signup/ https://www.firebase.com/signup/ *https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ay0qp434rqd0dm/persona.png https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ay0qp434rqd0dm/persona.png

alefteris 14y ago
Regarding Firebase, they said that they "added support for Persona as one of the authentication mechanisms for their Simple Login service". Their main website must not be using this service or not enabled the particular authentication component?
- anant 14y ago
  That's correct, the Simple Login service allows apps that use Firebase to integrate Persona authentication: https://www.firebase.com/docs/security/simple-login-persona.html https://www.firebase.com/docs/security/simple-login-persona.... This means the data you store in Firebase can be associated with a Persona user, and you can structure your security rules to enforce whatever read/write behavior makes sense for your app.
riquito 14y ago
"sign in with persona" may be confusing now but "sign in with your e-mail" it's pretty clear https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/persona/branding https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/persona/branding
- huhtenberg 14y ago
  It is not, actually. A reasonable guess for "Sign in with your email" prompt is that you'd need to go through a typical account creation process using your email as a primary ID. In other words, the message looks like a synonym of "Create an account". There gotta be more thought put into how to make people aware of Persona mechanism, because it is quite different from all existing sign-in options and it needs to be learned of explicitly.
  - drdaeman 14y ago
    But Persona is all about using your email as your primary ID. Otherwise they'd just let you use keypair directly, without a hassle of having third parties (email providers) leasing you an identity.
    - huhtenberg 14y ago
      Believe me, _I_ know that. The question is how to word the Persona sign-in prompt so not to confuse an Average Joe.
- dabeeeenster 14y ago
  It's not clear at all. It's not clear to me and I've been a web developer for 15 years! - I go to this site that I've never been to before - It asks me to sign in with my email address, but I've never been to the site before so assume it doesn't "know" my email address - I think look for a "Create Account" button to set up my account - Now I'm confused as there is not a button anywhere - I think "Well, I can't just type my email address in because that has never, ever worked on the web" And so confusion reigns. Without some sort of iconography explaining what email addresses are accepted a la OAuth most users are going to be completely stumped.
  - 6a68 14y ago
    Hey, so any email address will work. If it's not a Persona identity provider, then you'll just get prompted to create an account with the persona.org fallback IdP. You can see this right now by trying to login using a gmail account vs a yahoo mail account. Does this help?
stephen 14y ago
Agreed, I was really surprised to go through the login.persona.org site; I thought it'd be "type in email, hit login, go to yahoo to say okay, done". Perhaps this sort of flow is possible, but just requires more work?
6a68 14y ago
The Persona branding is necessary because you aren't creating an account with the underlying website--you're creating an account with the persona.org fallback identity provider (that is, unless you're using a yahoo.com email or another Persona identity provider). Think about it this way: suppose you create a persona.org account at site X, then visit site Y which also uses Persona for login. It would look like site Y recognized you, but how? Seems like an incoherent user experience. Does this help at all? Firebase offers a login service which includes Persona alongside Facebook, Github, Twitter as login options. They've got a demo here: http://firebase.github.io/firebase-simple-login/ http://firebase.github.io/firebase-simple-login/
- TylerE 14y ago
  You're losing 95% of users right there, including many techies. What's "Persona" vs "persona.org" vs "Persona identity provider" vs "persona.org fallback identity provider"
  - ricardobeat 14y ago
    I don't think any site using OpenID has a 95% bounce rate because of it. Persona is the name of the magic, you need a way to tell it from OAuth and other sign-in mechanisms.
- cmpitg 14y ago
  So how about something like "Sign in to ABC with Persona", or "Sign in to ABC with Personal using your email" (more specific)?
  - ricardobeat 14y ago
    It's the same as "Sign in with Google", "Connect with Facebook", "Sign in with Twitter". It's implied.
    - cmpitg 14y ago
      Well, I personally don't think they do imply the same thing from a user's perspective. * Google, Facebook, Twitter, ... have become so well-known brands comparing to the new Persona. Normal users could quickly get a sense of what "Sign in with Google/Facebook/Twitter/..." means, but not "Sign in with Persona" means. * Persona is not a social network while other mentioned brands are or provide a sense of social network. A user might perceive "signing in with <your-favourite-social-network-provider>" as an act of making the site a part of the network; while with Persona it's totally different.

alefteris 14y ago

Regarding Firebase, they said that they "added support for Persona as one of the authentication mechanisms for their Simple Login service". Their main website must not be using this service or not enabled the particular authentication component?

anant 14y ago
That's correct, the Simple Login service allows apps that use Firebase to integrate Persona authentication: https://www.firebase.com/docs/security/simple-login-persona.html https://www.firebase.com/docs/security/simple-login-persona.... This means the data you store in Firebase can be associated with a Persona user, and you can structure your security rules to enforce whatever read/write behavior makes sense for your app.

riquito 14y ago

"sign in with persona" may be confusing now but "sign in with your e-mail" it's pretty clear https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/persona/branding https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/persona/branding

huhtenberg 14y ago
It is not, actually. A reasonable guess for "Sign in with your email" prompt is that you'd need to go through a typical account creation process using your email as a primary ID. In other words, the message looks like a synonym of "Create an account". There gotta be more thought put into how to make people aware of Persona mechanism, because it is quite different from all existing sign-in options and it needs to be learned of explicitly.
- drdaeman 14y ago
  But Persona is all about using your email as your primary ID. Otherwise they'd just let you use keypair directly, without a hassle of having third parties (email providers) leasing you an identity.
  - huhtenberg 14y ago
    Believe me, _I_ know that. The question is how to word the Persona sign-in prompt so not to confuse an Average Joe.
dabeeeenster 14y ago
It's not clear at all. It's not clear to me and I've been a web developer for 15 years! - I go to this site that I've never been to before - It asks me to sign in with my email address, but I've never been to the site before so assume it doesn't "know" my email address - I think look for a "Create Account" button to set up my account - Now I'm confused as there is not a button anywhere - I think "Well, I can't just type my email address in because that has never, ever worked on the web" And so confusion reigns. Without some sort of iconography explaining what email addresses are accepted a la OAuth most users are going to be completely stumped.
- 6a68 14y ago
  Hey, so any email address will work. If it's not a Persona identity provider, then you'll just get prompted to create an account with the persona.org fallback IdP. You can see this right now by trying to login using a gmail account vs a yahoo mail account. Does this help?

stephen 14y ago

Agreed, I was really surprised to go through the login.persona.org site; I thought it'd be "type in email, hit login, go to yahoo to say okay, done". Perhaps this sort of flow is possible, but just requires more work?

6a68 14y ago

The Persona branding is necessary because you aren't creating an account with the underlying website--you're creating an account with the persona.org fallback identity provider (that is, unless you're using a yahoo.com email or another Persona identity provider). Think about it this way: suppose you create a persona.org account at site X, then visit site Y which also uses Persona for login. It would look like site Y recognized you, but how? Seems like an incoherent user experience. Does this help at all? Firebase offers a login service which includes Persona alongside Facebook, Github, Twitter as login options. They've got a demo here: http://firebase.github.io/firebase-simple-login/ http://firebase.github.io/firebase-simple-login/

TylerE 14y ago
You're losing 95% of users right there, including many techies. What's "Persona" vs "persona.org" vs "Persona identity provider" vs "persona.org fallback identity provider"
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  I don't think any site using OpenID has a 95% bounce rate because of it. Persona is the name of the magic, you need a way to tell it from OAuth and other sign-in mechanisms.
cmpitg 14y ago
So how about something like "Sign in to ABC with Persona", or "Sign in to ABC with Personal using your email" (more specific)?
- ricardobeat 14y ago
  It's the same as "Sign in with Google", "Connect with Facebook", "Sign in with Twitter". It's implied.
  - cmpitg 14y ago
    Well, I personally don't think they do imply the same thing from a user's perspective. * Google, Facebook, Twitter, ... have become so well-known brands comparing to the new Persona. Normal users could quickly get a sense of what "Sign in with Google/Facebook/Twitter/..." means, but not "Sign in with Persona" means. * Persona is not a social network while other mentioned brands are or provide a sense of social network. A user might perceive "signing in with <your-favourite-social-network-provider>" as an act of making the site a part of the network; while with Persona it's totally different.