5 ms·

And it's web based, and thus I will never use it.

macspoofing 14y ago
That's a strange restriction you put on yourself? Today you have to have a good reason for your product to NOT be web-based.
- yuchi 14y ago
  I'm interested too. Is the browser environment which bugs you or the web "platform"? (you know, HTML and brothers)
- lutusp 14y ago
  > Today you have to have a good reason for your product to NOT be web-based. For a document that the visitor cannot afford to lose, or for anything in which privacy, security or personal control are issues, a Web-based document is obviously a mistake. Why do you think the big players in cloud-based and Web-based storage and applications are having such a hard time getting people to adopt them? The answer is obvious -- the drawbacks greatly outweigh the advantages. The risk of losing sensitive content or having it be compromised or stolen is too great. Even games, a less serious endeavor, suffer when they adopt a Web-based approach. Look at the brouhaha that followed from making the most recent SimCity version work online-only: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-15-ea-defends-always-online-simcity http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-15-ea-defends-... A quote: ------------------------------------ "So, could we have built a subset offline mode? Yes," Bradshaw admitted. "But we rejected that idea because it didn't fit with our vision...The SimCity we delivered captures the magic of its heritage but catches up with ever-improving technology." A number of upset fans in the comments section to Bradshaw's update were not assuaged by the explanation. As one user going by the handle klymen wrote, "With all due respect, to write an article about why the new SimCity has to be always online and not to mention DRM or the anti-piracy measure even once, is dishonest and downright disrespectful. It seems like that you don't think very highly of your audience. Yes, the DRM issue is a sensitive topic, but to avoid it, not to mention it as one of the reason why SimCity is always online, shows absolute disconnect and contempt for your fans. We're not stupid." ------------------------------------ The above is just about a game, not a business transaction or potentially sensitive communication. As to data loss, consider incidents like this: Title: Amazon's Cloud Crash Disaster Permanently Destroyed Many Customers' Data Link: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-28/tech/29958976_1_amazon-customer-customers-data-data-loss http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-28/tech/29958976... Quote: "In addition to taking down the sites of dozens of high-profile companies for hours (and, in some cases, days), Amazon's huge EC2 cloud services crash permanently destroyed some data. The data loss was apparently small relative to the total data stored, but anyone who runs a web site can immediately understand how terrifying a prospect any data loss is." In conclusion, and to second the SimCity gamer's quote above, we're not stupid.
  - daleharvey 14y ago
    Sim City wasnt written in web technology and needed to be online, its possible to write applications using web technology that dont need to be online. Those arguments have nothing to do with each other, 'the web' doesnt equal 'store everything in cloud based servers'
    - lutusp 14y ago
      My point was that forcing SimCity's fans to adopt a cloud-based version of the game was a big mistake, and everyone involved accepts this now. > Sim City wasnt written in web technology and needed to be online The present version of SimCity requires players to log on. The game will not work without a Web connection. This has created a huge outcry from fans of the game. > its possible to write applications using web technology that dont need to be online. If we define "online" as "connected to a network", then yes, Web-based applications require one to be online. And most Web-based applications require an Internet connection. > Those arguments have nothing to do with each other ... Cloud-based storage and Web-based applications have nothing to do with each other? Most Web-based applications store their results in the cloud. If you adopt Web-based applications, you're also adopting cloud-based storage at least temporarily.
      - macspoofing 14y ago
        >My point was that forcing SimCity's fans to adopt a cloud-based version of the game was a big mistake, and everyone involved accepts this now. The BIG problem with SimCity wasn't that it had online features (those are great), but that it did not let you play offline for any good reason, which annoyed the heck out of people. And how does that example prove anything? A mediocre game (single or multiplayer, online or offline) gets released every other week. >Cloud-based storage and Web-based applications have nothing to do with each other? They don't. You can have a web-based app, that is hosted locally, or you can have an installed app, that cannot function without a cloud-service (e.g. almost every mobile app). >Most Web-based applications store their results in the cloud. I mentioned this in another post, but almost every business, big or small runs some of kind of a intranet, where they control the entire stack. The reality is that we're moving away from that setup as well. So no, web-based and cloud-based aren't the same thing.
toddmorey 14y ago
One interesting and important bit about how Firebase works is that all write operations to the data happen locally, and then they are synced back to Firebase (and to other connected clients) on a best-effort basis. That approach is designed to prevent network lag / connectivity issues from impacting the responsiveness of the application. Advancements like that are starting to make newer web apps feel more and more like their desktop counterparts.
yesimahuman 14y ago
While your preferences are perfectly valid, I think it's safe to say web based editors and tools are very popular to a large amount of people. For example, everyone I know loves Google Docs and few of them use MS Office. That's real and shouldn't be discounted so quickly.

That's a strange restriction you put on yourself? Today you have to have a good reason for your product to NOT be web-based.

yuchi 14y ago
I'm interested too. Is the browser environment which bugs you or the web "platform"? (you know, HTML and brothers)
lutusp 14y ago
> Today you have to have a good reason for your product to NOT be web-based. For a document that the visitor cannot afford to lose, or for anything in which privacy, security or personal control are issues, a Web-based document is obviously a mistake. Why do you think the big players in cloud-based and Web-based storage and applications are having such a hard time getting people to adopt them? The answer is obvious -- the drawbacks greatly outweigh the advantages. The risk of losing sensitive content or having it be compromised or stolen is too great. Even games, a less serious endeavor, suffer when they adopt a Web-based approach. Look at the brouhaha that followed from making the most recent SimCity version work online-only: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-15-ea-defends-always-online-simcity http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-03-15-ea-defends-... A quote: ------------------------------------ "So, could we have built a subset offline mode? Yes," Bradshaw admitted. "But we rejected that idea because it didn't fit with our vision...The SimCity we delivered captures the magic of its heritage but catches up with ever-improving technology." A number of upset fans in the comments section to Bradshaw's update were not assuaged by the explanation. As one user going by the handle klymen wrote, "With all due respect, to write an article about why the new SimCity has to be always online and not to mention DRM or the anti-piracy measure even once, is dishonest and downright disrespectful. It seems like that you don't think very highly of your audience. Yes, the DRM issue is a sensitive topic, but to avoid it, not to mention it as one of the reason why SimCity is always online, shows absolute disconnect and contempt for your fans. We're not stupid." ------------------------------------ The above is just about a game, not a business transaction or potentially sensitive communication. As to data loss, consider incidents like this: Title: Amazon's Cloud Crash Disaster Permanently Destroyed Many Customers' Data Link: http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-28/tech/29958976_1_amazon-customer-customers-data-data-loss http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-04-28/tech/29958976... Quote: "In addition to taking down the sites of dozens of high-profile companies for hours (and, in some cases, days), Amazon's huge EC2 cloud services crash permanently destroyed some data. The data loss was apparently small relative to the total data stored, but anyone who runs a web site can immediately understand how terrifying a prospect any data loss is." In conclusion, and to second the SimCity gamer's quote above, we're not stupid.
- daleharvey 14y ago
  Sim City wasnt written in web technology and needed to be online, its possible to write applications using web technology that dont need to be online. Those arguments have nothing to do with each other, 'the web' doesnt equal 'store everything in cloud based servers'
  - lutusp 14y ago
    My point was that forcing SimCity's fans to adopt a cloud-based version of the game was a big mistake, and everyone involved accepts this now. > Sim City wasnt written in web technology and needed to be online The present version of SimCity requires players to log on. The game will not work without a Web connection. This has created a huge outcry from fans of the game. > its possible to write applications using web technology that dont need to be online. If we define "online" as "connected to a network", then yes, Web-based applications require one to be online. And most Web-based applications require an Internet connection. > Those arguments have nothing to do with each other ... Cloud-based storage and Web-based applications have nothing to do with each other? Most Web-based applications store their results in the cloud. If you adopt Web-based applications, you're also adopting cloud-based storage at least temporarily.
    - macspoofing 14y ago
      >My point was that forcing SimCity's fans to adopt a cloud-based version of the game was a big mistake, and everyone involved accepts this now. The BIG problem with SimCity wasn't that it had online features (those are great), but that it did not let you play offline for any good reason, which annoyed the heck out of people. And how does that example prove anything? A mediocre game (single or multiplayer, online or offline) gets released every other week. >Cloud-based storage and Web-based applications have nothing to do with each other? They don't. You can have a web-based app, that is hosted locally, or you can have an installed app, that cannot function without a cloud-service (e.g. almost every mobile app). >Most Web-based applications store their results in the cloud. I mentioned this in another post, but almost every business, big or small runs some of kind of a intranet, where they control the entire stack. The reality is that we're moving away from that setup as well. So no, web-based and cloud-based aren't the same thing.

toddmorey 14y ago

One interesting and important bit about how Firebase works is that all write operations to the data happen locally, and then they are synced back to Firebase (and to other connected clients) on a best-effort basis. That approach is designed to prevent network lag / connectivity issues from impacting the responsiveness of the application. Advancements like that are starting to make newer web apps feel more and more like their desktop counterparts.

yesimahuman 14y ago

While your preferences are perfectly valid, I think it's safe to say web based editors and tools are very popular to a large amount of people. For example, everyone I know loves Google Docs and few of them use MS Office. That's real and shouldn't be discounted so quickly.