4 ms·

My pet peeve in Europe is the positioning of traffic lights. It drives me crazy that they not on the opposite side of the intersection, like in the US, but at t

by tjansen 14y ago

My pet peeve in Europe is the positioning of traffic lights. It drives me crazy that they not on the opposite side of the intersection, like in the US, but at the stop line. If you are in the first car at the stop line, then they are right above you and you have to crawl under the windshield to see them. Worst usability ever.

baq 14y ago
this positioning makes the rules clear: you must _always_ stop before a red light. no exceptions.
- tjansen 14y ago
  I know, but then you should do the same for pedastrians.
  - vanderZwan 14y ago
    Pedestrians have the fear of being run over. I don't think cars have to worry about the same from pedestrians. Actually, that's also the reason the laws tend to favour the pedestrians in all situations, even when they are to blame.
GotAnyMegadeth 14y ago
* Some of the traffic lights in some European countries. This is not the case in most of England, also in France there is often another set of lights lower down on the pole positioned for the driver in the car in the front of the queue.
- tjansen 14y ago
  Here in Germany as well, but then it gets really confusing. My favorite example is this intersection: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=K%C3%BChlwetterstra%C3%9Fe,+Dusseldorf,+Germany&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.24355,6.796138&spn=0.000713,0.001742&sll=33.651208,-63.017578&sspn=60.307713,114.169922&oq=kueh&t=h&hnear=K%C3%BChlwetterstra%C3%9Fe,+40239+D%C3%BCsseldorf,+Nordrhein-Westfalen,+Germany&z=20&layer=c&cbll=51.24355,6.796138&panoid=aKQ4dzYjAFkMTu--OVHMAA&cbp=12,92.55,,0,2.84 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=K%C3%BChlwetterstra%C3%9Fe,+D... It has three lights, only two of them positioned at the stop line.
  - iooi 14y ago
    Why is there a huge blurred building in this particular interserction?
  - iso8859-1 14y ago
    What is the problem here? You expected more at the stop line? Why?
    - tjansen 14y ago
      It's confusing to have three lights for a single stop line, especially the light on the left is odd. You don't know which of the traffic lights apply to you and it makes you look for another stop line.
  - iso8859-1 14y ago
    @iooi: The blurred building is there because someone requested it blurred: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View_privacy_concerns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View_privacy_conc...
ygra 14y ago
Here in Germany they are at least overhead and to the right on the pole, the latter easily visible from the first car. Additionally some intersections have them on the left side on a pole as well.
- tjansen 14y ago
  True, but they are not always so much easier to see if you are in the first car. Also, if you need three lights instead of one, I think that is a sure sign that the design is broken.
relaia 14y ago
In the UK they are both; the back of the 'near' traffic lights for you act as the 'far' traffic lights for the opposite drivers, and vice-versa. This allows you both to see the lights at the junction, and to see them easier on approach, even if the junction is at the top of a hill/etc.
arnarbi 14y ago
Many countries in Europe have them on both sides. Not having the one on the near side is my biggest problem when driving in the US, it has happened that I have to slam down on the brakes because I'm already 10 meters away from the intersection when I see the red light. In any case, placing them only on the near side is often intentional, as it forces drivers to stop far away from the intersection itself. This leaves space for pedestrians, and provides drivers from the other directions with more space to look around. It also creates a buffer where cars can move into when an emergency vehicle needs to pass the queues.
- tkahn6 14y ago
  Uh you shouldn't be surprised by a red light unless you're cresting a hill (and even then there will usually be a flashing sign indicating a red light up ahead). The yellow light indicates you should start slowing down.
  - arnarbi 14y ago
    Oh, I know I shouldn't. But when you are used to having the light at the near end, you don't look as far ahead for it. Of course, I learned my lesson and don't expect the system to adapt to me.
bullfightonmars 14y ago
No. A million times no. As you said traffic lights in Europe are on the leading edge of an intersection. This may in fact be the simplest and most foundational bit of usability and user experience innovation the US could learn from Europe in intersection design. 1) Placing the signals on the leading edge means that the stop line is ~10 feet back from the intersection. If you decide to ignore the stop line, you can't see the signals. BAM instant conformance to proper road use. 2) Following on that, sitting 10 feet back from the intersection you can see everything in the intersection. You can see pedestrians crossing in front of you and to the right of you. You can see cyclists entering into the intersection and passing you far before you enter the intersection. As a ped or cyclist this makes intersections much, much safer. 3) As you approach an intersection, and the light switches to yellow and then red, there can be no doubt about the state of the light as you enter the intersection. You can't enter or pass through the intersection on a red light as you might in the US, because it will be red before you even get to the intersection. This seriously reduces running lights or flying through the intersection, making intersections much, much safter for motorists.
- tjansen 14y ago
  I don't understand the correlation between the position of the lights and the position of the stop line. You can have a stop line 10 feet away from the intersection and still have traffic lights on the other side. Actually, in my experience, not being able to see the lights once you crossed the stop line can also be quite dangerous, and it has happened to me more than once in traffic jams.
  - baq 14y ago
    what if there's snow on the road and the stop line isn't visible? what if there's no stop line?
kokey 14y ago
For sure. I'm used to having them both before and after the intersection, so then you can clearly see which part it is for, and you can see it wherever you are, and you can see it well from a long distance. Some countries in Europe have some additional lights at car window level close to the intersection, this helps a lot, but still not ideal.
zwieback 14y ago
The street lights were the most confusing thing moving from Germany to the US. The first year or so my heart often jumped when I felt like I was running a red light after turning right on a green. Now when I go back after driving in the US for 20 years there are a lot of things that seem weird in Germany. Not having right-on-red (and even left on red into one-ways) is a huge plus here. I also think there's too much yielding to the car coming from much smaller streets on the right.
- rmk2 14y ago
  > I also think there's too much yielding to the car coming from much smaller streets on the right. That's a feature though, since it is usually used in residential areas to slow down traffic and force people to stop more frequently, instead of just rolling through at 30...who are we kidding, 40+ Km/h.
  - baq 14y ago
    40? make it 70 if there aren't any speed bumps.

by tjansen 14y ago

baq 14y ago

this positioning makes the rules clear: you must _always_ stop before a red light. no exceptions.

tjansen 14y ago
I know, but then you should do the same for pedastrians.
- vanderZwan 14y ago
  Pedestrians have the fear of being run over. I don't think cars have to worry about the same from pedestrians. Actually, that's also the reason the laws tend to favour the pedestrians in all situations, even when they are to blame.

GotAnyMegadeth 14y ago

* Some of the traffic lights in some European countries. This is not the case in most of England, also in France there is often another set of lights lower down on the pole positioned for the driver in the car in the front of the queue.

tjansen 14y ago
Here in Germany as well, but then it gets really confusing. My favorite example is this intersection: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=K%C3%BChlwetterstra%C3%9Fe,+Dusseldorf,+Germany&hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=51.24355,6.796138&spn=0.000713,0.001742&sll=33.651208,-63.017578&sspn=60.307713,114.169922&oq=kueh&t=h&hnear=K%C3%BChlwetterstra%C3%9Fe,+40239+D%C3%BCsseldorf,+Nordrhein-Westfalen,+Germany&z=20&layer=c&cbll=51.24355,6.796138&panoid=aKQ4dzYjAFkMTu--OVHMAA&cbp=12,92.55,,0,2.84 https://maps.google.com/maps?q=K%C3%BChlwetterstra%C3%9Fe,+D... It has three lights, only two of them positioned at the stop line.
- iooi 14y ago
  Why is there a huge blurred building in this particular interserction?
- iso8859-1 14y ago
  What is the problem here? You expected more at the stop line? Why?
  - tjansen 14y ago
    It's confusing to have three lights for a single stop line, especially the light on the left is odd. You don't know which of the traffic lights apply to you and it makes you look for another stop line.
- iso8859-1 14y ago
  @iooi: The blurred building is there because someone requested it blurred: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View_privacy_concerns http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Street_View_privacy_conc...

ygra 14y ago

Here in Germany they are at least overhead and to the right on the pole, the latter easily visible from the first car. Additionally some intersections have them on the left side on a pole as well.

tjansen 14y ago
True, but they are not always so much easier to see if you are in the first car. Also, if you need three lights instead of one, I think that is a sure sign that the design is broken.

relaia 14y ago

In the UK they are both; the back of the 'near' traffic lights for you act as the 'far' traffic lights for the opposite drivers, and vice-versa. This allows you both to see the lights at the junction, and to see them easier on approach, even if the junction is at the top of a hill/etc.

arnarbi 14y ago

Many countries in Europe have them on both sides. Not having the one on the near side is my biggest problem when driving in the US, it has happened that I have to slam down on the brakes because I'm already 10 meters away from the intersection when I see the red light. In any case, placing them only on the near side is often intentional, as it forces drivers to stop far away from the intersection itself. This leaves space for pedestrians, and provides drivers from the other directions with more space to look around. It also creates a buffer where cars can move into when an emergency vehicle needs to pass the queues.

tkahn6 14y ago
Uh you shouldn't be surprised by a red light unless you're cresting a hill (and even then there will usually be a flashing sign indicating a red light up ahead). The yellow light indicates you should start slowing down.
- arnarbi 14y ago
  Oh, I know I shouldn't. But when you are used to having the light at the near end, you don't look as far ahead for it. Of course, I learned my lesson and don't expect the system to adapt to me.

bullfightonmars 14y ago

No. A million times no. As you said traffic lights in Europe are on the leading edge of an intersection. This may in fact be the simplest and most foundational bit of usability and user experience innovation the US could learn from Europe in intersection design. 1) Placing the signals on the leading edge means that the stop line is ~10 feet back from the intersection. If you decide to ignore the stop line, you can't see the signals. BAM instant conformance to proper road use. 2) Following on that, sitting 10 feet back from the intersection you can see everything in the intersection. You can see pedestrians crossing in front of you and to the right of you. You can see cyclists entering into the intersection and passing you far before you enter the intersection. As a ped or cyclist this makes intersections much, much safer. 3) As you approach an intersection, and the light switches to yellow and then red, there can be no doubt about the state of the light as you enter the intersection. You can't enter or pass through the intersection on a red light as you might in the US, because it will be red before you even get to the intersection. This seriously reduces running lights or flying through the intersection, making intersections much, much safter for motorists.

tjansen 14y ago
I don't understand the correlation between the position of the lights and the position of the stop line. You can have a stop line 10 feet away from the intersection and still have traffic lights on the other side. Actually, in my experience, not being able to see the lights once you crossed the stop line can also be quite dangerous, and it has happened to me more than once in traffic jams.
- baq 14y ago
  what if there's snow on the road and the stop line isn't visible? what if there's no stop line?

kokey 14y ago

For sure. I'm used to having them both before and after the intersection, so then you can clearly see which part it is for, and you can see it wherever you are, and you can see it well from a long distance. Some countries in Europe have some additional lights at car window level close to the intersection, this helps a lot, but still not ideal.

zwieback 14y ago

The street lights were the most confusing thing moving from Germany to the US. The first year or so my heart often jumped when I felt like I was running a red light after turning right on a green. Now when I go back after driving in the US for 20 years there are a lot of things that seem weird in Germany. Not having right-on-red (and even left on red into one-ways) is a huge plus here. I also think there's too much yielding to the car coming from much smaller streets on the right.

rmk2 14y ago
> I also think there's too much yielding to the car coming from much smaller streets on the right. That's a feature though, since it is usually used in residential areas to slow down traffic and force people to stop more frequently, instead of just rolling through at 30...who are we kidding, 40+ Km/h.
- baq 14y ago
  40? make it 70 if there aren't any speed bumps.