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1. A right to practice any religion without the establishment of any official religion. 2. The right to speak freely against the government. This is culturally

by maratd 14y ago

1. A right to practice any religion without the establishment of any official religion. 2. The right to speak freely against the government. This is culturally extended to other targets of speech as well. Includes written, artistic, and some obscene works. 3. The right to not have soldiers commandeer your property, even in times of war. 4. The right to be safe in your possessions against arbitrary search. In the US, a police officer can't just pull you aside and search you. They need to have a clearly defined reason to do so or get a search warrant from a judge. 5. Every citizen above a certain age has the right to vote and be heard in government, regardless of political affiliation or sex. I'm bored of listing things. Go read the constitutional yourself if you're curious. Two and half centuries later, and it's still a document that puts much of Europe and the rest of the world to shame. As I said, it's implementation isn't perfect, nothing in life is ... but it's certainly much better than the alternatives currently on display elsewhere.

yardie 14y ago
Look, the constitution is 250 year old parchment and it appears a lot of legislators have probably forgotten what's on it. 1. Applies to most european countries as well. Some, like Scientology, are actually called what they are, scams. Not because of the dogma, but because they put greater emphasis on raising money. 2. And what EU member country doesn't have this? 3. The US has only been invaded by a) the British b) itself. Just like torture, when push comes to shove the government will find a way around this. Do remember the government confiscated property from the southern gentry by classifying them as traitors. 4. Minorities (black, hispanic, asian, arabic) throughout the US would like to have a word with you. Hell, NYC doesn't even try to gus it up. They call it "stop and frisk". 5. You have the right to vote. Not all states have to make it easy or convenient to do so. I'm lucky in that I live abroad so I'm entitled to an absentee ballot. If I lived in my last US address I could not vote by mail on my free time. I would have to go to the polls, on a tuesday, during working hours. Europe isn't one country so I don't know why you describe it as such. I could equally say the US has a beheading problem since Mexico is right there and they are the same, right?
- maratd 14y ago
  > 1. Applies to most european countries as well. No. http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/western-europe-vs-religious-freedom-7869 http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/western-europe-vs-rel... > 2. And what EU member country doesn't have this? Germany, Austria, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata Mind you, the man is absolute human garbage, but the entire point of protecting speech is protecting the most despicable kind. It's fairly easy to tolerate the pleasant variety. > 3. The US has only been invaded by ... My point still stands. Even if the US throws this one under the bus in the future, my point still stands. It's not about a perfect record, but a good one. The US has a good record on this. > 4. ... Hell, NYC doesn't even try to gus it up. They call it "stop and frisk". I live in the NYC area, so I know about this a bit. In each case, the person consents to the search. Yes, it's pretty scary when a cop walks over to you and tells you to empty your pockets. You need to have balls to say "No" and "I do not consent to any searches". But then again, any right given to you is pointless if you don't have the balls to exercise it. > 5. You have the right to vote. Not all states have to make it easy or convenient to do so. You don't have a right to a convenient process, merely a process. It's a wonderful thing to reach a point where people have the wherewithal to bitch about how convenient voting is, rather than if their vote is actually counted. Mind you, I'm of the same mind as you, I think we should be able to vote on the Internet. Lately, my home state of New Jersey has made an effort to permit this (albeit, in response to a natural disaster).
  - tripzilch 14y ago
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata Yeap. Moving the goalposts. You said "The right to speak freely against the government". If you said "free speech" in general, yes, you'd be right. But you said "speaking out against the government". Right now, you've only shown that the US is somehow better because you're allowed to freely deny the Holocaust. Let's put your "god hates fags" guy in the same category. Such a free country! See, my point is not that these anti-holocaust-denying laws are silly, they are and I wish they'd go away. The point is, how does your "free speech" protect you when you've actually got something to say. So far you've demonstrated American citizens have the right to inane and offensive yelling, that doesn't actually speak out in any effective way against the government. Let's see some real examples, where someone exercised their right to free speech of something that actually made the government actually really uncomfortable that actually really led to change, as well as a similar example where this was not possible in a EU country because its people didn't have the right. And there's been enough examples, also in the US, of people gagged (with legal rulings) because of what they would have to say would make the government uncomfortable. In practice, your right is the Freedom to Scream Dumb Shit. Don't delude yourself it's actually anything more than that. Maybe "Freedom to play court jester" sounds a bit more forgiving. I'm not saying the EU-"no holocaust denying"-countries are any better, but it's not "free speech" if it only protects raging lunatics.
herval 14y ago
these hold true in all european countries, most south/central american ones and probably most asiab countries as well (although I don't know that side of the world firsthand, unfortunately. So much for a pedantic ufanist reply...
- maratd 14y ago
  > these hold true in all european countries Last time I checked, Belarus was in Europe.

by maratd 14y ago

yardie 14y ago

Look, the constitution is 250 year old parchment and it appears a lot of legislators have probably forgotten what's on it. 1. Applies to most european countries as well. Some, like Scientology, are actually called what they are, scams. Not because of the dogma, but because they put greater emphasis on raising money. 2. And what EU member country doesn't have this? 3. The US has only been invaded by a) the British b) itself. Just like torture, when push comes to shove the government will find a way around this. Do remember the government confiscated property from the southern gentry by classifying them as traitors. 4. Minorities (black, hispanic, asian, arabic) throughout the US would like to have a word with you. Hell, NYC doesn't even try to gus it up. They call it "stop and frisk". 5. You have the right to vote. Not all states have to make it easy or convenient to do so. I'm lucky in that I live abroad so I'm entitled to an absentee ballot. If I lived in my last US address I could not vote by mail on my free time. I would have to go to the polls, on a tuesday, during working hours. Europe isn't one country so I don't know why you describe it as such. I could equally say the US has a beheading problem since Mexico is right there and they are the same, right?

maratd 14y ago
> 1. Applies to most european countries as well. No. http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/western-europe-vs-religious-freedom-7869 http://nationalinterest.org/commentary/western-europe-vs-rel... > 2. And what EU member country doesn't have this? Germany, Austria, etc. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata Mind you, the man is absolute human garbage, but the entire point of protecting speech is protecting the most despicable kind. It's fairly easy to tolerate the pleasant variety. > 3. The US has only been invaded by ... My point still stands. Even if the US throws this one under the bus in the future, my point still stands. It's not about a perfect record, but a good one. The US has a good record on this. > 4. ... Hell, NYC doesn't even try to gus it up. They call it "stop and frisk". I live in the NYC area, so I know about this a bit. In each case, the person consents to the search. Yes, it's pretty scary when a cop walks over to you and tells you to empty your pockets. You need to have balls to say "No" and "I do not consent to any searches". But then again, any right given to you is pointless if you don't have the balls to exercise it. > 5. You have the right to vote. Not all states have to make it easy or convenient to do so. You don't have a right to a convenient process, merely a process. It's a wonderful thing to reach a point where people have the wherewithal to bitch about how convenient voting is, rather than if their vote is actually counted. Mind you, I'm of the same mind as you, I think we should be able to vote on the Internet. Lately, my home state of New Jersey has made an effort to permit this (albeit, in response to a natural disaster).
- tripzilch 14y ago
  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving#Persona_non_grata Yeap. Moving the goalposts. You said "The right to speak freely against the government". If you said "free speech" in general, yes, you'd be right. But you said "speaking out against the government". Right now, you've only shown that the US is somehow better because you're allowed to freely deny the Holocaust. Let's put your "god hates fags" guy in the same category. Such a free country! See, my point is not that these anti-holocaust-denying laws are silly, they are and I wish they'd go away. The point is, how does your "free speech" protect you when you've actually got something to say. So far you've demonstrated American citizens have the right to inane and offensive yelling, that doesn't actually speak out in any effective way against the government. Let's see some real examples, where someone exercised their right to free speech of something that actually made the government actually really uncomfortable that actually really led to change, as well as a similar example where this was not possible in a EU country because its people didn't have the right. And there's been enough examples, also in the US, of people gagged (with legal rulings) because of what they would have to say would make the government uncomfortable. In practice, your right is the Freedom to Scream Dumb Shit. Don't delude yourself it's actually anything more than that. Maybe "Freedom to play court jester" sounds a bit more forgiving. I'm not saying the EU-"no holocaust denying"-countries are any better, but it's not "free speech" if it only protects raging lunatics.

herval 14y ago

these hold true in all european countries, most south/central american ones and probably most asiab countries as well (although I don't know that side of the world firsthand, unfortunately. So much for a pedantic ufanist reply...

maratd 14y ago
> these hold true in all european countries Last time I checked, Belarus was in Europe.