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A MacBook air with 1 current generation thunderbolt port can drive two 2560x1440 thunderbolt displays via daisy chaining.

by zaphoyd 14y ago

wtallis 14y ago
I can't find any indication on Apple's site that the Air can drive more than one of Apple's Thunderbolt displays, and the math doesn't support your assertion that it can: two such displays would require a minimum of 11.6 Gbps, which can only be provided by DisplayPort version 1.2 (or later). EDIT: If the video data is being sent with the cable operating in pure Thunderbolt mode with no DisplayPort lanes configured for the connection, then there's enough bandwidth, but I don't know how that would work.
- dhess 14y ago
  All of Apple's 2012 models (save the Mac Pro), and a few of its 2011 models, can drive 2 Thunderbolt displays: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219?viewlocale=en_US#dispnum http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219?viewlocale=en_US#dispnum I've done this myself with both the MacBook Air (Mid 2012) and the Mac Mini (Late 2012).
- zaphoyd 14y ago
  A single current generation Thunderbolt port runs two separate 10Gbit channels. Each channel is a mux of PCI-E data and a DisplayPort 1.1a stream. Two displays (each up to DisplayPort 1.1a's 8.64Gb maximum bandwidth) can be driven on one chain, one off of each channel. This can either be two Thunderbolt displays or one Thunderbolt display and one pass through raw DisplayPort display at the end. Some restrictions apply due to the need for one Thunderbolt controller chip per display to do the DisplayPort demuxing. A Thunderbolt monitor will typically have one Thunderbolt chip and will use its DisplayPort output itself. A DisplayPort display can't be daisy chained directly after a Thunderbolt display (but can after a non-display Thunderbolt peripheral) for this reason. It sounds like (according to the OP article) that the 2013 Thunderbolt chips (Redwood Ridge) will allow DisplayPort 1.2 pass through only. In this configuration the port could either be run as a Thunderbolt chain (with the above limitations to 2xDP 1.1) or as a DisplayPort 1.2 port. In 1.2 mode Thunderbolt peripherals couldn't be used, but DisplayPort 1.2 features (in particular 4k support and MST) could be used. Presumably the 2014 20Gbit channel Thunderbolt could allow 2xDP 1.2 as that tops out at 17.28Gbit. Edit: yes, this means that devices sharing the chain with two Thunderbolt displays will have constrained incoming bandwidth. Probably even more so as the only Thunderbolt displays in existence also sport USB, speakers, a webcam, FW800, and Gigabit Ethernet, which together could easily eat up the remaining bandwidth on the TB channel. This may also be part of the reason why Apple hasn't released an updated Thunderbolt display with USB3, 2x10Gbit doesn't go very far with a pair of 27 inch displays hogging most of it.
  - wtallis 14y ago
    Ok. That clears things up a bit. So a PCIe device and a DP device can share the same 10Gb channel at the same time? Does this mean that the presence of a DP device will mean that writes to the PCIe device are much slower than the corresponding reads (since the DP device is only using bandwidth in one direction)?
mturmon 14y ago
A video of an MBP (not an air) doing this is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP1thwUcO9c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP1thwUcO9c Skip to 30s in to see the single TB cable driving the two displays. You really can drive two of these monitors thru a single TB connection.
- Arelius 14y ago
  > Thunderbolt can currently drive only one 30" monitor. The 27" monitors are not 30" monitors.
  - mturmon 14y ago
    The 30" quoted by the GP was 2560x1600 pixels The TB 27" monitor has 2560x1440 pixels (10% less) That's close enough for the ballpark calculation of the GP. (I'm not saying I 100% follow the GP's understanding of the numbers and systems issues, because I don't. I responded because I've seen the two-monitor, one-cable setup in practice.)

A MacBook air with 1 current generation thunderbolt port can drive two 2560x1440 thunderbolt displays via daisy chaining.

by zaphoyd 14y ago

A MacBook air with 1 current generation thunderbolt port can drive two 2560x1440 thunderbolt displays via daisy chaining.

wtallis 14y ago

I can't find any indication on Apple's site that the Air can drive more than one of Apple's Thunderbolt displays, and the math doesn't support your assertion that it can: two such displays would require a minimum of 11.6 Gbps, which can only be provided by DisplayPort version 1.2 (or later). EDIT: If the video data is being sent with the cable operating in pure Thunderbolt mode with no DisplayPort lanes configured for the connection, then there's enough bandwidth, but I don't know how that would work.

dhess 14y ago
All of Apple's 2012 models (save the Mac Pro), and a few of its 2011 models, can drive 2 Thunderbolt displays: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219?viewlocale=en_US#dispnum http://support.apple.com/kb/HT5219?viewlocale=en_US#dispnum I've done this myself with both the MacBook Air (Mid 2012) and the Mac Mini (Late 2012).
zaphoyd 14y ago
A single current generation Thunderbolt port runs two separate 10Gbit channels. Each channel is a mux of PCI-E data and a DisplayPort 1.1a stream. Two displays (each up to DisplayPort 1.1a's 8.64Gb maximum bandwidth) can be driven on one chain, one off of each channel. This can either be two Thunderbolt displays or one Thunderbolt display and one pass through raw DisplayPort display at the end. Some restrictions apply due to the need for one Thunderbolt controller chip per display to do the DisplayPort demuxing. A Thunderbolt monitor will typically have one Thunderbolt chip and will use its DisplayPort output itself. A DisplayPort display can't be daisy chained directly after a Thunderbolt display (but can after a non-display Thunderbolt peripheral) for this reason. It sounds like (according to the OP article) that the 2013 Thunderbolt chips (Redwood Ridge) will allow DisplayPort 1.2 pass through only. In this configuration the port could either be run as a Thunderbolt chain (with the above limitations to 2xDP 1.1) or as a DisplayPort 1.2 port. In 1.2 mode Thunderbolt peripherals couldn't be used, but DisplayPort 1.2 features (in particular 4k support and MST) could be used. Presumably the 2014 20Gbit channel Thunderbolt could allow 2xDP 1.2 as that tops out at 17.28Gbit. Edit: yes, this means that devices sharing the chain with two Thunderbolt displays will have constrained incoming bandwidth. Probably even more so as the only Thunderbolt displays in existence also sport USB, speakers, a webcam, FW800, and Gigabit Ethernet, which together could easily eat up the remaining bandwidth on the TB channel. This may also be part of the reason why Apple hasn't released an updated Thunderbolt display with USB3, 2x10Gbit doesn't go very far with a pair of 27 inch displays hogging most of it.
- wtallis 14y ago
  Ok. That clears things up a bit. So a PCIe device and a DP device can share the same 10Gb channel at the same time? Does this mean that the presence of a DP device will mean that writes to the PCIe device are much slower than the corresponding reads (since the DP device is only using bandwidth in one direction)?

mturmon 14y ago

A video of an MBP (not an air) doing this is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP1thwUcO9c http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sP1thwUcO9c Skip to 30s in to see the single TB cable driving the two displays. You really can drive two of these monitors thru a single TB connection.

Arelius 14y ago
> Thunderbolt can currently drive only one 30" monitor. The 27" monitors are not 30" monitors.
- mturmon 14y ago
  The 30" quoted by the GP was 2560x1600 pixels The TB 27" monitor has 2560x1440 pixels (10% less) That's close enough for the ballpark calculation of the GP. (I'm not saying I 100% follow the GP's understanding of the numbers and systems issues, because I don't. I responded because I've seen the two-monitor, one-cable setup in practice.)