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I'm not an expert on the subject, but I distinctly remember Oracle's CEO complaining about H1B visas for our graduation speech. It was a stale speech, particula

I'm not an expert on the subject, but I distinctly remember Oracle's CEO complaining about H1B visas for our graduation speech. It was a stale speech, particularly when their company never even sent a Rep to our school's career fair. It took me months (7) to get a web dev position as a physics major, often because I was perceived as a weaker candidate. My git projects were never even looked at and I was once told to my face that the company doesn't hire physics majors for developer positions. Now, two months on the job, I've fixed runaway JavaScript code that ruined UX on various pages, decreased memory overhead by at least 50% as a starting point and extended a large open source project so it does more for us. These are just the projects out of my own initiative. In the meantime my physics friends are largely unemployed (all but two, me being one of those two) and no company wants any training at all. So forgive me if I'm all out of sympathy for these companies, even if I feel for the global workers affected, but I've seen first-hand the dehumanizing dismissiveness that you are treated with as an entry level dev

jlarocco 14y ago
Your story doesn't back up the claims you're making. To be honest, I'm surprised you got any developer position at all with a physics major. If you wanted to do web development, why did you get a physics degree? It's like saying "I want to be a doctor" and then getting a law degree. College is training, and you trained to be an entry level physicist. There are plenty of recent CS grads looking for jobs, and their major is at least somewhat related to the job they're applying for. Yeah, it sucks you had a hard time, but it's not surprising, and it's hard to feel bad for you given the choices you made.
- arenaninja 14y ago
  Except I'm not looking for sympathy. And your assertion that a CS degree prepares you for real life programming is almost laughable. Plenty of people work in areas that are only peripherally related to their majors without detriment to their trade. Your comparison of web dev to being a doctor tells me your understanding of the trade isn't all that clear.
  - jlarocco 14y ago
    If for no other reason, a CS degree is useful because it helps find entry level jobs which lead to actual experience. Without a CS degree, though, how can you really ascertain whether it's useful for "real life programming" or not? You've done okay without it, but you don't know how well you'd have done with one. Second, I, and apparently several people you interviewed with, would claim physics isn't even peripherally related to web development. If you were writing simulation software or FEA software, I'd completely agree. But where's the connection to web development? Finally, I was making an analogy, not comparing web development to being a doctor.
    - arenaninja 14y ago
      Ok, I see your point. On my earlier post, I was typing on my phone, but it comes off as rude where I was trying to be brief. I understand that a CS degree would've made things much easier on getting a job, and I would've been offered a higher salary as well, I'm sure. As I said, that's why I don't ask for sympathy, I know full well that my path is probably the less traditional one. But even so I had plenty of hours of programming on the courses I took -- C/C++, Digital Electronics (programming FPGA boards, tinkering CPUs/APUs), not to mention that I had an 18 month internship -- which is where I learned about web dev -- and I designed two relational databases in previous part-time jobs. All of this came up during my various interviews, and I wasn't ever given a callback until I was. So I'd say there's an abundance of candidates, even if there's potentially a skill gap on those candidates it's a gap that's easily bridged, but too many employers don't want to invest any time training in their employees, which shouldn't be the norm in any industry, but is somehow acceptable in our current tech industry.
      - saffer 14y ago
        What size companies were you applying to? I've heard that smaller corps tend to put emphasis on CS education, while the big ones (big enough to have research divisions, like Google and Microsoft) are happy to consider people from other quantitative fields so long as they can code and know something about algorithms. I know people with math, statistics and aeronautical engineering backgrounds who've worked at Google and Microsoft. I'm sure physicists would fit in too.
- toomuchtodo 14y ago
  Our company is staffing up a full IT department right now. We don't even look at the education section. Oh? You went to school for 4 years for CS? Good for you. Show me what you've built/what you've done. Anyone can get a degree; doers build.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - jlarocco 14y ago
    I'm not saying there aren't companies who do that. But you must realize your company is an exception, right? The majority of companies use a CS degree to filter candidates. The OP made things more difficult for himself, so it makes little sense to complain about how difficult of a time he had. He could have made it 10x easier by switching majors to CS.
    - toomuchtodo 14y ago
      Why switch majors? Drop the education part, build something, show it to companies looking, profit. Degrees are overrated.
      - jlarocco 14y ago
        I think you missed my point.
        toomuchtodo 14y ago
        Probably. It happens. Apologies for not connecting on the thought.
- DrJokepu 14y ago
  Oh, come off it. 18 year olds make bad career decisions all the time as they lack the experience and information that would help them making the right choice. Sometimes there is external pressure. Also, people change. And sometimes you realise halfway through your programme that your major is really not for you.
- barry-cotter 14y ago
  An entry level physicist has a Ph.D. not a Bachelor's. I believe this is true for all the sciences. A B.S. in biology or chemistry gets you a job as a lab tech, maybe.
geebee 14y ago
Your story really reminds me of what it was like for me to get into the business as well. I was a math undergrad with an Industrial Engineering MS degree, and it took some work to get that first dev job. I'd done some coding for my classes, and I'd written a lot of personal projects. I was doing this back in 2000, when it was more unusual to have something like a github profile where you could share code. It was difficult to get potential employers to look at it. I couldn't disagree more with jlarocco that this is like trying to be a physician with a law degree. But if you're going to go the untraditional path, it's on you to show that you can do the job. Fortunately, that's getting easier every year - and I get the feeling that the savvier employers are far more likely to look at things like personal projects - in fact, for many of them, that's the main thing they care about, not your degree (BTW, a physics degree is impressive, though they won't care nearly as much as they do about your programming projects). Oracle... well, yeah, frustrating stuff. But not exactly a great sign about Oracle, either. I think you'll be pretty glad you didn't work for them.
- arenaninja 14y ago
  I absolutely agree on Oracle, it's the biggest gripe on my post. Unfortunately I was on my phone so I couldn't convey everything I wanted just the way I wanted.

jlarocco 14y ago

Your story doesn't back up the claims you're making. To be honest, I'm surprised you got any developer position at all with a physics major. If you wanted to do web development, why did you get a physics degree? It's like saying "I want to be a doctor" and then getting a law degree. College is training, and you trained to be an entry level physicist. There are plenty of recent CS grads looking for jobs, and their major is at least somewhat related to the job they're applying for. Yeah, it sucks you had a hard time, but it's not surprising, and it's hard to feel bad for you given the choices you made.

arenaninja 14y ago
Except I'm not looking for sympathy. And your assertion that a CS degree prepares you for real life programming is almost laughable. Plenty of people work in areas that are only peripherally related to their majors without detriment to their trade. Your comparison of web dev to being a doctor tells me your understanding of the trade isn't all that clear.
- jlarocco 14y ago
  If for no other reason, a CS degree is useful because it helps find entry level jobs which lead to actual experience. Without a CS degree, though, how can you really ascertain whether it's useful for "real life programming" or not? You've done okay without it, but you don't know how well you'd have done with one. Second, I, and apparently several people you interviewed with, would claim physics isn't even peripherally related to web development. If you were writing simulation software or FEA software, I'd completely agree. But where's the connection to web development? Finally, I was making an analogy, not comparing web development to being a doctor.
  - arenaninja 14y ago
    Ok, I see your point. On my earlier post, I was typing on my phone, but it comes off as rude where I was trying to be brief. I understand that a CS degree would've made things much easier on getting a job, and I would've been offered a higher salary as well, I'm sure. As I said, that's why I don't ask for sympathy, I know full well that my path is probably the less traditional one. But even so I had plenty of hours of programming on the courses I took -- C/C++, Digital Electronics (programming FPGA boards, tinkering CPUs/APUs), not to mention that I had an 18 month internship -- which is where I learned about web dev -- and I designed two relational databases in previous part-time jobs. All of this came up during my various interviews, and I wasn't ever given a callback until I was. So I'd say there's an abundance of candidates, even if there's potentially a skill gap on those candidates it's a gap that's easily bridged, but too many employers don't want to invest any time training in their employees, which shouldn't be the norm in any industry, but is somehow acceptable in our current tech industry.
    - saffer 14y ago
      What size companies were you applying to? I've heard that smaller corps tend to put emphasis on CS education, while the big ones (big enough to have research divisions, like Google and Microsoft) are happy to consider people from other quantitative fields so long as they can code and know something about algorithms. I know people with math, statistics and aeronautical engineering backgrounds who've worked at Google and Microsoft. I'm sure physicists would fit in too.
toomuchtodo 14y ago
Our company is staffing up a full IT department right now. We don't even look at the education section. Oh? You went to school for 4 years for CS? Good for you. Show me what you've built/what you've done. Anyone can get a degree; doers build.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- jlarocco 14y ago
  I'm not saying there aren't companies who do that. But you must realize your company is an exception, right? The majority of companies use a CS degree to filter candidates. The OP made things more difficult for himself, so it makes little sense to complain about how difficult of a time he had. He could have made it 10x easier by switching majors to CS.
  - toomuchtodo 14y ago
    Why switch majors? Drop the education part, build something, show it to companies looking, profit. Degrees are overrated.
    - jlarocco 14y ago
      I think you missed my point.
      - toomuchtodo 14y ago
        Probably. It happens. Apologies for not connecting on the thought.
DrJokepu 14y ago
Oh, come off it. 18 year olds make bad career decisions all the time as they lack the experience and information that would help them making the right choice. Sometimes there is external pressure. Also, people change. And sometimes you realise halfway through your programme that your major is really not for you.
barry-cotter 14y ago
An entry level physicist has a Ph.D. not a Bachelor's. I believe this is true for all the sciences. A B.S. in biology or chemistry gets you a job as a lab tech, maybe.

geebee 14y ago

Your story really reminds me of what it was like for me to get into the business as well. I was a math undergrad with an Industrial Engineering MS degree, and it took some work to get that first dev job. I'd done some coding for my classes, and I'd written a lot of personal projects. I was doing this back in 2000, when it was more unusual to have something like a github profile where you could share code. It was difficult to get potential employers to look at it. I couldn't disagree more with jlarocco that this is like trying to be a physician with a law degree. But if you're going to go the untraditional path, it's on you to show that you can do the job. Fortunately, that's getting easier every year - and I get the feeling that the savvier employers are far more likely to look at things like personal projects - in fact, for many of them, that's the main thing they care about, not your degree (BTW, a physics degree is impressive, though they won't care nearly as much as they do about your programming projects). Oracle... well, yeah, frustrating stuff. But not exactly a great sign about Oracle, either. I think you'll be pretty glad you didn't work for them.

arenaninja 14y ago
I absolutely agree on Oracle, it's the biggest gripe on my post. Unfortunately I was on my phone so I couldn't convey everything I wanted just the way I wanted.