7 ms·

It's long past time to put these up for bid instead of lottery. Companies that really need talent and will pay fairly for it are being held up by cheap CRUD lab

It's long past time to put these up for bid instead of lottery. Companies that really need talent and will pay fairly for it are being held up by cheap CRUD labor sweatshop employers that file mountains of applications. If we met the serious needs first, measured reasonably well by willingness to pay, there would be more than enough visas. That's in addition to other reforms this program needs like the right to switch jobs.

pvarangot 14y ago
Why are you assuming sweatshops usually turn less profit per employee (and hence are willing to pay less for access to adequate labour) that companies that "really need talent"? Would you care to elaborate on what type of companies would fit in both of your categories?
pslam 14y ago
A bidding system would inevitably favor businesses with more resources to spend on employment. I'm not sure whether that would end up being a good thing. It's already extremely expensive to hire someone on an H1B visa, despite what myths may have been spread, due to legal and logistical expenses. There is an abuse I have however heard of (sorry no citation): obtaining H1B visas for employees you never intend to bring to the US. This is due to how difficult it is to get work visas to the US, so you end up with an H1B "just in case" you need them to travel. The right to switch jobs is another tricky one. The remit of an H1B is to place a foreign worker in a job role which has been demonstrated to be difficult to fill with a citizen. It does not replace an individual job. You can switch jobs with an H1B so long as the other job is the same job role (very much the same job responsibilities). This seems ok to begin with, but after several years it turns into a shackle because it's difficult for H1B workers, who by their nature are specialists, to switch to another job with the same specialist role. Combine that with the huge amount of time it can take to convert to a green card (5-10 years for some countries), and they're stuck in a job for most of a decade in an era where job hopping is common.
- geebee 14y ago
  the problem with the "extremely expensive" claim is that you do get a worker who is somewhat captive in a tight labor market. It is inaccurate to claim, as some people do, that H1B holders can't switch jobs, but they do face much greater barriers (they can't just quit, enter a new field, start up their own business or consultancy... even changing to a nearly identical job in the same field requires new sponsorship). If the visa were awarded directly to the immigrant in such a way that an H1B holder had essentially the same job mobility as a green card holder, I'd be more inclined to agree that the process is expensive. After all, you'd be paying big $$ to hire someone who has the right to quit the first day on the job.
untog 14y ago
Up for bid would be terrible news for the startup industry. It would be impossible for any startup (that desperately needs developers) to hire outside of the country.
- tosseraccount 14y ago
  If you want to help the startup industry, then how about making health insurance portable for the people over 35 that the start up industry won't hire? Then they could start their own garage based firms and compete the with the Sand Hill Road backed companies.
prostoalex 14y ago
While in short-term that would resolve the issue, the long-term strategy for many companies would be to just establish offices in other countries or hire outsourcing outfits with 1 local project management type employee and a 20-head development team elsewhere. There's really no reason for government to artificially cap the number of available visas, provided that educational and other requirements are met. The governments are in the business of generating revenues, and H1-B employees pay all proper taxes, so net result is a win-win for both parties.

pvarangot 14y ago

Why are you assuming sweatshops usually turn less profit per employee (and hence are willing to pay less for access to adequate labour) that companies that "really need talent"? Would you care to elaborate on what type of companies would fit in both of your categories?

pslam 14y ago

A bidding system would inevitably favor businesses with more resources to spend on employment. I'm not sure whether that would end up being a good thing. It's already extremely expensive to hire someone on an H1B visa, despite what myths may have been spread, due to legal and logistical expenses. There is an abuse I have however heard of (sorry no citation): obtaining H1B visas for employees you never intend to bring to the US. This is due to how difficult it is to get work visas to the US, so you end up with an H1B "just in case" you need them to travel. The right to switch jobs is another tricky one. The remit of an H1B is to place a foreign worker in a job role which has been demonstrated to be difficult to fill with a citizen. It does not replace an individual job. You can switch jobs with an H1B so long as the other job is the same job role (very much the same job responsibilities). This seems ok to begin with, but after several years it turns into a shackle because it's difficult for H1B workers, who by their nature are specialists, to switch to another job with the same specialist role. Combine that with the huge amount of time it can take to convert to a green card (5-10 years for some countries), and they're stuck in a job for most of a decade in an era where job hopping is common.

geebee 14y ago
the problem with the "extremely expensive" claim is that you do get a worker who is somewhat captive in a tight labor market. It is inaccurate to claim, as some people do, that H1B holders can't switch jobs, but they do face much greater barriers (they can't just quit, enter a new field, start up their own business or consultancy... even changing to a nearly identical job in the same field requires new sponsorship). If the visa were awarded directly to the immigrant in such a way that an H1B holder had essentially the same job mobility as a green card holder, I'd be more inclined to agree that the process is expensive. After all, you'd be paying big $$ to hire someone who has the right to quit the first day on the job.

untog 14y ago

Up for bid would be terrible news for the startup industry. It would be impossible for any startup (that desperately needs developers) to hire outside of the country.

tosseraccount 14y ago
If you want to help the startup industry, then how about making health insurance portable for the people over 35 that the start up industry won't hire? Then they could start their own garage based firms and compete the with the Sand Hill Road backed companies.

prostoalex 14y ago

While in short-term that would resolve the issue, the long-term strategy for many companies would be to just establish offices in other countries or hire outsourcing outfits with 1 local project management type employee and a 20-head development team elsewhere. There's really no reason for government to artificially cap the number of available visas, provided that educational and other requirements are met. The governments are in the business of generating revenues, and H1-B employees pay all proper taxes, so net result is a win-win for both parties.