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The Waltons' fortunes are built by our labor, unless you think they could staff ~9000 locations by themselves.

ctdonath 14y ago
Non-sequitur. The Walton's fortunes are built by trading for our labor, benefitting both. This does not obligate the Waltons to pay "living wages" where the value of one's labor does not rise to the cost of one's living expenses.
- Avshalom 14y ago
  The point is that we are not asking Walmart to "supply" us with a living wage from somebody's personal bank account or that somebody else work harder so we can get paid more. The workers are already creating a value for the company significantly larger than what they see every two weeks. We are asking that Walmart/Employer-X give us a larger portion of our labor back.
  - ctdonath 14y ago
    So ask for a raise. A thing is worth only what another is willing to pay for it. If others are willing to do the same work for the objected-to price, you're asking too much. Of course the company gets more value out of the work than the employee. If it were just break-even, the question would be "why bother?" and either just not have the work done, or find a radically different way to get it done (say, hiring Roomba if the cost of human floor-sweepers gets too high). The great thing about employment is BOTH get more out than they put in - yes, that includes the employee working there instead of elsewhere for lower pay, or not being paid for not working anywhere. Sucks, yes, at times. Most of human history involved a lot of effort to eek out a meager existence. If you want more, you gotta do more that others are willing to pay more for. Oh, and yes - you ARE asking for a "living wage from somebody's personal bank account". The Waltons are people too.
    - Avshalom 14y ago
      I rather feel like campaigning for a living was IS asking for a raise. although the comment that I was responding to (yours): "How moral is it to not earn a living wage, but expect others to supply it anyway?" presents asking for--or rather receiving-- a raise as immoral. I was pointing out that people are already earning a living, they are just not being paid it.

Non-sequitur. The Walton's fortunes are built by trading for our labor, benefitting both. This does not obligate the Waltons to pay "living wages" where the value of one's labor does not rise to the cost of one's living expenses.

Avshalom 14y ago
The point is that we are not asking Walmart to "supply" us with a living wage from somebody's personal bank account or that somebody else work harder so we can get paid more. The workers are already creating a value for the company significantly larger than what they see every two weeks. We are asking that Walmart/Employer-X give us a larger portion of our labor back.
- ctdonath 14y ago
  So ask for a raise. A thing is worth only what another is willing to pay for it. If others are willing to do the same work for the objected-to price, you're asking too much. Of course the company gets more value out of the work than the employee. If it were just break-even, the question would be "why bother?" and either just not have the work done, or find a radically different way to get it done (say, hiring Roomba if the cost of human floor-sweepers gets too high). The great thing about employment is BOTH get more out than they put in - yes, that includes the employee working there instead of elsewhere for lower pay, or not being paid for not working anywhere. Sucks, yes, at times. Most of human history involved a lot of effort to eek out a meager existence. If you want more, you gotta do more that others are willing to pay more for. Oh, and yes - you ARE asking for a "living wage from somebody's personal bank account". The Waltons are people too.
  - Avshalom 14y ago
    I rather feel like campaigning for a living was IS asking for a raise. although the comment that I was responding to (yours): "How moral is it to not earn a living wage, but expect others to supply it anyway?" presents asking for--or rather receiving-- a raise as immoral. I was pointing out that people are already earning a living, they are just not being paid it.