4 ms·

I always chuckle when I hear "MVP" in the same sentence as a RoR/node.js stack, complicated monetization strategies and A/B testing. A bank account and a Googl

by jmduke 14y ago

I always chuckle when I hear "MVP" in the same sentence as a RoR/node.js stack, complicated monetization strategies and A/B testing. A bank account and a Google Docs spreadsheet. That's MVP.

ultimoo 14y ago
Bang on. I would probably extend it to include the email-first startup strategy that was posted here by Sachin of Posterous fame a while ago. Since ZeroCater provides a physical service to companies and is located in SF Bay Area with a uniquely high density of companies it probably doesn’t apply here, but I can imagine some form of a computerized sign up is needed for other MVPs.
- patio11 14y ago
  I can imagine some form of a computerized sign up is needed for other MVPs Believe it or not, services businesses did actually exist before CRM software and online signup forms. The SF Bay Area does not have a uniquely high density of companies. You can totally do spiritually-similar things to this. A spiritually similar example: Appointment Reminder didn't actually exist in summer 2010, but I had a two-page demo of it set up. I got $400 out of an ATM when I went home to Chicago to visit, and just wandered around the Gold Coast/Magnificent Mile region of the city looking for every hair salon and massage therapy practice I could find. I asked them all if I they took walk-ins and, if so, could I have 30 minutes of the owner's time for whatever the rate was ($30 or so). In lieu of the shoulder massage/etc, I said "I'm interested in the massage therapy industry. Would you mind if we just chatted for half an hour about it?" And I asked about how they handled scheduling, appointments, no-shows, etc etc. I also did a demo of my two-page AR mini-app on the iPad and asked if they would be interested in buying it when it was ready. I think only one person actually accepted my money for the interviews. I got five-ish "Please tell me when that is ready" out of a dozen or so conversations. No Bay Area or signup form required. (I put their emails in a paper notebook. And lost it prior to launch. Whoopsie.) This was mostly successful for me: it confirmed that there was a market willing to pay for AR without me needing to actually build it to demonstrate that. (My sampling technique, which found only massage therapists/hair salons, did sort of lead me off the rails as to who I'd eventually end up targeting for most of the business. D'oh.)
  - ultimoo 14y ago
    Haha, great story, thanks for sharing the walk-in appointment idea. Sorry about your notebook though. This does change how I used to think about validating ideas. Email signups and fancy landing pages can be replaced by personally going over, handing out business cards, and pitching your ideas whenever you get a chance like it says in the original post.
  - DanielBMarkham 14y ago
    Amazing the amount of useful information you can get just walking around town talking to people :)
  - SatvikBeri 14y ago
    Who did you end up targeting?
    - patio11 14y ago
      That's a long story. Suffice it to say that I have more exterminators as clients than massage therapists -- apparently when a client forgetting an appointment means your three employees just drove 45 minutes to get locked out of a house that irks (and costs) more than just having to play Angry Birds until you get a walk-in.
snowwrestler 14y ago
Where's the P? Don't you have to build something for it to be considered a [P]roduct? Where is the line between MVP and just prospecting?
w1ntermute 14y ago
From the comments section, by Arram himself: "Learn to program people. A lot of that pain was unnecessary."
raverbashing 14y ago
Exactly!! This is very true A Startup has nothing to do with a 'node.js/RoR/GoOnSkis/etc' stack or computes. The association is statistical rather than structural. The business comes first. Of course programming helps and saves pain. But my money is on the business knowledge first. Yes, the 'computer people' like to bash the business people, and it is often true that sometimes they have bad ideas or act like they know the business when they don't. This is like the tech specialists thinking a product will sell only based on its tech specs.

by jmduke 14y ago

I always chuckle when I hear "MVP" in the same sentence as a RoR/node.js stack, complicated monetization strategies and A/B testing. A bank account and a Google Docs spreadsheet. That's MVP.

ultimoo 14y ago

Bang on. I would probably extend it to include the email-first startup strategy that was posted here by Sachin of Posterous fame a while ago. Since ZeroCater provides a physical service to companies and is located in SF Bay Area with a uniquely high density of companies it probably doesn’t apply here, but I can imagine some form of a computerized sign up is needed for other MVPs.

patio11 14y ago
I can imagine some form of a computerized sign up is needed for other MVPs Believe it or not, services businesses did actually exist before CRM software and online signup forms. The SF Bay Area does not have a uniquely high density of companies. You can totally do spiritually-similar things to this. A spiritually similar example: Appointment Reminder didn't actually exist in summer 2010, but I had a two-page demo of it set up. I got $400 out of an ATM when I went home to Chicago to visit, and just wandered around the Gold Coast/Magnificent Mile region of the city looking for every hair salon and massage therapy practice I could find. I asked them all if I they took walk-ins and, if so, could I have 30 minutes of the owner's time for whatever the rate was ($30 or so). In lieu of the shoulder massage/etc, I said "I'm interested in the massage therapy industry. Would you mind if we just chatted for half an hour about it?" And I asked about how they handled scheduling, appointments, no-shows, etc etc. I also did a demo of my two-page AR mini-app on the iPad and asked if they would be interested in buying it when it was ready. I think only one person actually accepted my money for the interviews. I got five-ish "Please tell me when that is ready" out of a dozen or so conversations. No Bay Area or signup form required. (I put their emails in a paper notebook. And lost it prior to launch. Whoopsie.) This was mostly successful for me: it confirmed that there was a market willing to pay for AR without me needing to actually build it to demonstrate that. (My sampling technique, which found only massage therapists/hair salons, did sort of lead me off the rails as to who I'd eventually end up targeting for most of the business. D'oh.)
- ultimoo 14y ago
  Haha, great story, thanks for sharing the walk-in appointment idea. Sorry about your notebook though. This does change how I used to think about validating ideas. Email signups and fancy landing pages can be replaced by personally going over, handing out business cards, and pitching your ideas whenever you get a chance like it says in the original post.
- DanielBMarkham 14y ago
  Amazing the amount of useful information you can get just walking around town talking to people :)
- SatvikBeri 14y ago
  Who did you end up targeting?
  - patio11 14y ago
    That's a long story. Suffice it to say that I have more exterminators as clients than massage therapists -- apparently when a client forgetting an appointment means your three employees just drove 45 minutes to get locked out of a house that irks (and costs) more than just having to play Angry Birds until you get a walk-in.

snowwrestler 14y ago

Where's the P? Don't you have to build something for it to be considered a [P]roduct? Where is the line between MVP and just prospecting?

w1ntermute 14y ago

From the comments section, by Arram himself: "Learn to program people. A lot of that pain was unnecessary."

raverbashing 14y ago

Exactly!! This is very true A Startup has nothing to do with a 'node.js/RoR/GoOnSkis/etc' stack or computes. The association is statistical rather than structural. The business comes first. Of course programming helps and saves pain. But my money is on the business knowledge first. Yes, the 'computer people' like to bash the business people, and it is often true that sometimes they have bad ideas or act like they know the business when they don't. This is like the tech specialists thinking a product will sell only based on its tech specs.