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As an animal researcher, I'm of two minds on this. Obviously, it's better if animal cruelty is exposed. The practices mentioned in the introduction definitely
by simonster 14y ago
As an animal researcher, I'm of two minds on this.
Obviously, it's better if animal cruelty is exposed. The practices mentioned in the introduction definitely constitute cruelty. They should not be allowed to happen, and whistleblowers should be permitted to record them so that evidence may be presented in court.
On the other hand, people with ties to animal rights organizations have a habit of finding animal cruelty where there is none. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Spring_monkeys https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Spring_monkeys for a classic example. The pictures produced by PETA portrayed a researcher's work as an open-and-shut case of animal cruelty when, in fact, the research was scientifically justified and it was ambiguous whether there was any negligence in the way the animals were cared for.
- eltondegeneres 14y agoThere was no doubt whether the animals subjected to unreasonable suffering. As for the question of scientific justification, there were non-animal models for neuroplasticity research available at the time. The widespread use of monkeys in neuroscience is more of a matter of convenience and entrenched interests. Just because a study produces scientific results does not mean that it is ethically valid, take the Tuskegee syphilis experiments or San Antonio Contraceptive Study for example.
- simonster 14y agoThis debate has been covered to death in other sources. The majority of scientists disagree with you. It might be because there is a vast conspiracy; it might because most peoples' values differ from yours; or it might be because we know neuroscience better than you do EDIT: Just to make clear, I don't want this to be taken as a wholehearted endorsement of the treatment of the animals in the Silver Springs case. There were some questionable practices. However, I feel that there was a scientific reason to be performing the general class of experiments.
- jkn 14y agoScientists who don't feel strongly about animal rights defend the position that is most convenient and efficient for them. If using a monkey instead of spending months cultivating petri dishes is easier (e.g. more deterministically successful for publication) then of course they will advocate for using the monkey. This argument leaves the animal rights activist unimpressed. In the end most animal experiments are certainly useful but few are strictly necessary. Researchers complain about all the paperwork required but I wish it was 100 times more difficult to get these experiments approved. Then people would really make sure the experiment is well thought-out and important. And I would happily delay some scientific discoveries by 50 years if that can spare a few million animals (thanks to better computer models or new noninvasive techniques)
- ctdonath 14y agoAnd if the delay costs human lives? perhaps lots of them? You make it sound like there is no consequence of the delay except time. Alas, time is among the most precious things each of us has, and I personally don't have another 50 to spare.
- jkn 14y agoHow is that the animals' problem? But note that I was referring to some discoveries. I just don't believe we're close to making an efficient "use" of the millions of animals subject to experiments every year.
- schiffern 14y agoReading the Silver Spring monkeys case, it sounds like the researchers would have been in a better position legally if there was 24/7 recorded surveillance of the animals' conditions. Of course, this assumes that he was correct and that the PETA member intentionally stopped cleaning the cages when the PI was on vacation to set him up.
- Kiro 14y agoYou linking that Wikipedia article made me donate some money to PETA straight away. I can't believe you're defending obvious animal cruelty with the heartless argument that it was "justified".
- simonster 13y agoIf you read the Wikipedia article, then you would realize that not everyone thinks the situation is as obvious as you do. I tend to agree with David Hubel's opinion referenced in that article. OTOH, this seems like obvious animal cruelty to me, although you apparently support it: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/peta-kills-puppies-kittens_b_2979220.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/nathan-j-winograd/peta-kills-p...