4 ms·

Wow. How do you save anything when working for minimum wage in the USA? In Boston, which is a pretty expensive city? I don't know the specifics of your situtat

by neilk 18y ago

Wow. How do you save anything when working for minimum wage in the USA? In Boston, which is a pretty expensive city? I don't know the specifics of your situtation, but it seems to me that most "self-made" people had a lot of educational and social capital built up already. They might have taken a year or two voluntarily outside the system, but it was only because, previously their parents were themselves well educated and made enough money to send their kids to good schools and nurture their interests and talents. So while the child may be exceptional and hard-working, and legitimately earned success, it's usually not quite accurate to say there was no support. Again, I'm not saying this is you, but I see it a lot. I know of maybe one person who overcame a true working class background where their parents actually discouraged them from even going into computers. Everyone else I know in this game is middle class, even upper middle class. I'm also interested in how much milieu seems to affect outcomes. People who just grew up around independent professionals or entrepreneurs have no trouble visualizing themselves doing that, and they know all the social cues.

modoc 18y ago
Honestly it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. I worked at Urban Outfitters for $5.15/hour. I started off sleeping on a friend's couch until I could save up enough to get an apartment. I shared a rough but clean apartment in Oak Square in Brighton with two other guys. It was on a bus line, and I could also bike to work if it wasn't snowy. We paid $300/month each. At my income level I didn't pay any real taxes, so I brought home ~$900/month. Spent $300 on rent, spent about $100 on food, maybe $50 on utilities/laundry, leaving $450 each month for savings. At this point that sounds like nothing, but then I didn't have any real expenses and it adds up month after month. While I certainly benefited from having good parents, I didn't have the direct financial support the OP referred to. My point being that you can financially bootstrap yourself without rich parents and without looking at college as "free" rent and food. I agree with you about the support of parents, focus on education, access to computers, visibility to successful people, etc... means a lot. However very little if any of that can fixed by tinkering with higher educational institutions. It's cultural, and it's economic. While I'd love to see everyone given the same opportunities, support, etc... it's confusing because we can't have everyone working in nice offices making $100k+/year. People still need to work at McDonalds, drive street sweepers, pick up trash, and all the other key roles in our society. Is it "fair" that upper middle class kids have a better chance of being upper middle class themselves? No. Is there a good way to fix that? Not that I know of.
- gills 18y ago
  Do you have a blog or something? It sounds like you have some good stories and lessons to share.
  - modoc 18y ago
    Thank you! I have two blogs, professional and personal (http://www.digitalsanctuary.com/tech-blog/ http://www.digitalsanctuary.com/tech-blog/ and http://www.digitalsanctuary.com/blog/ http://www.digitalsanctuary.com/blog/), however I haven't really talked too much about my "lessons learned" or experiences yet. Maybe I should.
- neilk 18y ago
  Of course there are ways to fix that. Better education for everyone, and access to upper-middle-class prerogatives like tutoring, clubs, athletics, and unsupervised time with advanced, programmable computers. That's basically the thesis of Gladwell's latest book, that we get mega-successes by providing rich opportunities for young people. Also, universal and well-funded health insurance is a great way to promote entrepreurial risk-taking. I know so many Americans who are scared to make the leap because they have a member of their family who needs some sort of medical care. Street sweeping may be an unattractive job for many, which is why it should have a relatively high wage and a good benefits plan. Actually the fact that you are even suggesting that society needs misery and unhappiness to function... well, this sounds very provocative, but it tells me a lot about your background. It's the sort of thing that is a universal but unstated assumption if you are middle class to elite. The theory is that some, if not most, people are going to have sucky jobs, schools, lives, and opportunities, and this is a good thing, because it motivates people to strive for the "better" jobs. Never mind that this often condemns people to repeat the misfortunes of their parents, no matter how talented they are. In the USA, people look back on the 50s as some kind of golden era of hard work and conservative values, but that was when there was the least income disparity, the most investment in infrastructure and education (even for adults), and some of the highest tax rates. Anyway I speak as a guy who went to a fancy private school, but as the token "ethnic" guy whose parents don't go for skiing weekends in foreign countries. So, I've been fortunate enough to see both sides.

by neilk 18y ago

modoc 18y ago

Honestly it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. I worked at Urban Outfitters for $5.15/hour. I started off sleeping on a friend's couch until I could save up enough to get an apartment. I shared a rough but clean apartment in Oak Square in Brighton with two other guys. It was on a bus line, and I could also bike to work if it wasn't snowy. We paid $300/month each. At my income level I didn't pay any real taxes, so I brought home ~$900/month. Spent $300 on rent, spent about $100 on food, maybe $50 on utilities/laundry, leaving $450 each month for savings. At this point that sounds like nothing, but then I didn't have any real expenses and it adds up month after month. While I certainly benefited from having good parents, I didn't have the direct financial support the OP referred to. My point being that you can financially bootstrap yourself without rich parents and without looking at college as "free" rent and food. I agree with you about the support of parents, focus on education, access to computers, visibility to successful people, etc... means a lot. However very little if any of that can fixed by tinkering with higher educational institutions. It's cultural, and it's economic. While I'd love to see everyone given the same opportunities, support, etc... it's confusing because we can't have everyone working in nice offices making $100k+/year. People still need to work at McDonalds, drive street sweepers, pick up trash, and all the other key roles in our society. Is it "fair" that upper middle class kids have a better chance of being upper middle class themselves? No. Is there a good way to fix that? Not that I know of.

gills 18y ago
Do you have a blog or something? It sounds like you have some good stories and lessons to share.
- modoc 18y ago
  Thank you! I have two blogs, professional and personal (http://www.digitalsanctuary.com/tech-blog/ http://www.digitalsanctuary.com/tech-blog/ and http://www.digitalsanctuary.com/blog/ http://www.digitalsanctuary.com/blog/), however I haven't really talked too much about my "lessons learned" or experiences yet. Maybe I should.
neilk 18y ago
Of course there are ways to fix that. Better education for everyone, and access to upper-middle-class prerogatives like tutoring, clubs, athletics, and unsupervised time with advanced, programmable computers. That's basically the thesis of Gladwell's latest book, that we get mega-successes by providing rich opportunities for young people. Also, universal and well-funded health insurance is a great way to promote entrepreurial risk-taking. I know so many Americans who are scared to make the leap because they have a member of their family who needs some sort of medical care. Street sweeping may be an unattractive job for many, which is why it should have a relatively high wage and a good benefits plan. Actually the fact that you are even suggesting that society needs misery and unhappiness to function... well, this sounds very provocative, but it tells me a lot about your background. It's the sort of thing that is a universal but unstated assumption if you are middle class to elite. The theory is that some, if not most, people are going to have sucky jobs, schools, lives, and opportunities, and this is a good thing, because it motivates people to strive for the "better" jobs. Never mind that this often condemns people to repeat the misfortunes of their parents, no matter how talented they are. In the USA, people look back on the 50s as some kind of golden era of hard work and conservative values, but that was when there was the least income disparity, the most investment in infrastructure and education (even for adults), and some of the highest tax rates. Anyway I speak as a guy who went to a fancy private school, but as the token "ethnic" guy whose parents don't go for skiing weekends in foreign countries. So, I've been fortunate enough to see both sides.