4 ms·

Why not require video cameras be installed in factory farms, and have footage independently reviewed? I feel like a lot of this abuse is due to poorly educated

by mdkess 14y ago

Why not require video cameras be installed in factory farms, and have footage independently reviewed? I feel like a lot of this abuse is due to poorly educated workers in a stressful environment and no observation.

aegiso 14y ago
For the same reason this law exists. Profits. Everything else be damned.
spacemanaki 14y ago
I just pasted this quote elsewhere in this thread but I'm going to paste it here again because it's so bold-faced. The videos may seem troubling to someone unfamiliar with farming, said Kelli Ludlum, the group’s director of Congressional relations, but they can be like seeing open-heart surgery for the first time. “They could be performing a perfect procedure, but you would consider it abhorrent that they were cutting a person open,” she said. Some of the behavior filmed is standard operating procedures, and they don't want that viewed by the otherwise ignorant public.
- carbocation 14y ago
  And yet, in contrast, we have surgeons posting their videos for all to see on YouTube because they are proud of the work that they do and they want people to see what goes on in the OR.
  - mseebach 14y ago
    It helps that "victims" of successful surgeries end up playing catch with their kids, and not in a clearance bin in a supermarket.
- mdkess 14y ago
  That's why I think independent reviews are better than public shaming. The untrained eye might not notice a surgeon improperly clean an instrument before surgery, but that may be the most dangerous mistake that they make - one which the trained eye would catch but the untrained would not. I do, however, think that there is real animal cruelty that is going on. How big a problem it is I don't know, but we are civilized enough that we as a society should be taking steps toward stopping it.
- goostavos 14y ago
  That struck me as well. While, I've never been to a slaughter house, I did spend quite a bit of my youth on my Uncle's dairy farm. So, I would argue that I'm not one of the "ignorant public" when it comes to how large amounts of animals are dealt with in captivity. I think this attempt to simply redefine abuse is pretty deplorable. Equating it to open heart surgery is simply madness. If we were talking about the actual slaughtering process, then yes, that analogy would have weight. Seeing a cow get killed and then chopped up would be similar on a "shock" level to seeing someone have open heart surgury. But that's now what we're talking about. That's not what these videos show. A better analogy would be someone breaking your knees in the waiting room, and then forcing you to crawl to the operating room where you'll finally receive your open heart surgery. The bulk of the farm videos I've seen all involve the terrible treatment of animals in their days to day lives. It's tough to buy "That's just the way it is" when "the way it is" doesn't need to be abusive.
- jcomis 14y ago
  As someone who grew up around farms, this is joke. No, that is not a good comparison by any measure. These videos are depicting cruelty, plain and simple. If that cruelty has become standard operating procedure it does not suddenly become OK, and certainly doesn't equate to a beneficial procedure such as open-heart surgery.
mseebach 14y ago
For the same reason we can't require videocameras to be installed in your home to make sure you don't beat your kids. Presumption of innocence, due process, those sorts of things. That's not saying there aren't some severe shortcomings, just answering your question.
- nmcfarl 14y ago
  Licensing requirements frequently require access to the facility by inspectors. Video access would be a new stretch but if food inspectors aren't a violation of the meat packing plants rights, I'm not sure that video camera's would be deemed to be so. Of course the legislative trend in this area is quite obviously in the opposite direction, and away from, not towards, tighter regulation of such facilities.

by mdkess 14y ago

aegiso 14y ago

For the same reason this law exists. Profits. Everything else be damned.

spacemanaki 14y ago

I just pasted this quote elsewhere in this thread but I'm going to paste it here again because it's so bold-faced. The videos may seem troubling to someone unfamiliar with farming, said Kelli Ludlum, the group’s director of Congressional relations, but they can be like seeing open-heart surgery for the first time. “They could be performing a perfect procedure, but you would consider it abhorrent that they were cutting a person open,” she said. Some of the behavior filmed is standard operating procedures, and they don't want that viewed by the otherwise ignorant public.

carbocation 14y ago
And yet, in contrast, we have surgeons posting their videos for all to see on YouTube because they are proud of the work that they do and they want people to see what goes on in the OR.
- mseebach 14y ago
  It helps that "victims" of successful surgeries end up playing catch with their kids, and not in a clearance bin in a supermarket.
mdkess 14y ago
That's why I think independent reviews are better than public shaming. The untrained eye might not notice a surgeon improperly clean an instrument before surgery, but that may be the most dangerous mistake that they make - one which the trained eye would catch but the untrained would not. I do, however, think that there is real animal cruelty that is going on. How big a problem it is I don't know, but we are civilized enough that we as a society should be taking steps toward stopping it.
goostavos 14y ago
That struck me as well. While, I've never been to a slaughter house, I did spend quite a bit of my youth on my Uncle's dairy farm. So, I would argue that I'm not one of the "ignorant public" when it comes to how large amounts of animals are dealt with in captivity. I think this attempt to simply redefine abuse is pretty deplorable. Equating it to open heart surgery is simply madness. If we were talking about the actual slaughtering process, then yes, that analogy would have weight. Seeing a cow get killed and then chopped up would be similar on a "shock" level to seeing someone have open heart surgury. But that's now what we're talking about. That's not what these videos show. A better analogy would be someone breaking your knees in the waiting room, and then forcing you to crawl to the operating room where you'll finally receive your open heart surgery. The bulk of the farm videos I've seen all involve the terrible treatment of animals in their days to day lives. It's tough to buy "That's just the way it is" when "the way it is" doesn't need to be abusive.
jcomis 14y ago
As someone who grew up around farms, this is joke. No, that is not a good comparison by any measure. These videos are depicting cruelty, plain and simple. If that cruelty has become standard operating procedure it does not suddenly become OK, and certainly doesn't equate to a beneficial procedure such as open-heart surgery.

mseebach 14y ago

For the same reason we can't require videocameras to be installed in your home to make sure you don't beat your kids. Presumption of innocence, due process, those sorts of things. That's not saying there aren't some severe shortcomings, just answering your question.

nmcfarl 14y ago
Licensing requirements frequently require access to the facility by inspectors. Video access would be a new stretch but if food inspectors aren't a violation of the meat packing plants rights, I'm not sure that video camera's would be deemed to be so. Of course the legislative trend in this area is quite obviously in the opposite direction, and away from, not towards, tighter regulation of such facilities.