5 ms·

When computer programming was ‘women’s work’

32 points by cup 14y ago

tokenadult 14y ago
2011. I think this was discussed here when it was first published. This is definitely an interesting article.
seivan 14y ago
The first day of our CS class was going to the (a) CS museum and showing us pictures of the early programmers ( who were all cis females)
- camelite 14y ago
  How do you know they were cis?
  - seivan 14y ago
    I assumed back then they would not photograph what would (back then) be considered "not normal". Just an assumption, I guess it does sound stupid.
lkrubner 14y ago
Women tend to get chased out of any industry that is shrinking, especially if the industry continues to offer good pay to the survivors. The medical profession has grown, so we have more women doctors. The computer industry has shrunk, so women are getting pushed out. The number of computer programmers in America has shrunk by more than 30%. Sources: Stats from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (USA): http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-programmers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/c... 2010 Number of Jobs 363,100 Especially worth a look: http://americawhatwentwrong.org/story/programming-jobs-fall/ http://americawhatwentwrong.org/story/programming-jobs-fall/ "In its 1990 Occupational Outlook Handbook, the U.S. Department of Labor was especially bullish: “The need for programmers will increase as businesses, government, schools and scientific organizations seek new applications for computers and improvements to the software already in use [and] further automation . . . will drive the growth of programmer employment.” The report predicted that the greatest demand would be for programmers with four years of college who would earn above-average salaries. When Labor made these projections in 1990, there were 565,000 computer programmers. With computer usage expanding, the department predicted that “employment of programmers is expected to grow much faster than the average for all occupations through the year 2005 . . .” It didn’t. Employment fluctuated in the years following the report, then settled into a slow downward pattern after 2000. By 2002, the number of programmers had slipped to 499,000. That was down 12 percent–not up–from 1990. Nonetheless, the Labor Department was still optimistic that the field would create jobs–not at the robust rate the agency had predicted, but at least at the same rate as the economy as a whole. Wrong again. By 2006, with the actual number of programming jobs continuing to decline, even that illusion couldn’t be maintained. With the number of jobs falling to 435,000, or 130,000 fewer than in 1990, Labor finally acknowledged that jobs in computer programming were “expected to decline slowly.” "
- DavidWoof 14y ago
  "Computer programmer" jobs have declined largely because the new BLS categories of web developer and software developer have exploded. US Software Developer jobs are increasing at a rate much higher than average. Check out http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/home.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/h... for the new breakdown of what used to be "programmer". But even if you step away from the numbers for a moment, do you seriously believe that "the computer industry has shrunk" since the 1970s? Seriously?
  - Uchikoma 14y ago
    Astonishing, they make a difference between "computer programmer" and "software developer".
    - jiggy2011 14y ago
      Software developers are the creative minds who design the software on laptops with external keyboards whilst wearing bluetooth headsets. Computer programmers work in offices and translate the creative vision of cool guys with sideswept hair into computer code. TIL
    - zb 14y ago
      Historically speaking, this is completely correct: before there were compilers, a "programmer" was someone who did what is now done by compilers. The actual software was designed by engineers. (Earlier than that, even, a programmer was someone who physically toggled the switches to input programs written by engineers into a computer.) The only reason there are any jobs left in this category is that there are companies who still believe (incorrectly) that we should have "programmers" doing the mechanical task of translating UML diagrams drawn by "architects" into code. I am glad to see this category shrinking (in favour of the software development/engineering categories) - because everybody in this industry deserves to have the creative value of their work recognised - and I hope to see it approach zero in the near future. http://www.zerobanana.com/essays/reclaiming-software-engineering/ http://www.zerobanana.com/essays/reclaiming-software-enginee...
jayshahtx 14y ago
"The numbers suggest that women with aptitude are out there; they’re just not choosing computer science" Pretty sure no one thinks women with aptitude aren't "out there".
- walshemj 14y ago
  probably because the average lawyer or doctor has higher status and a more secure future :-)
Nzen 14y ago
Funny, a 'women programmer' piece that starts in 1967. How about 1946? http://www.topsecretrosies.com/Top_Secret_Rosies/Home.html http://www.topsecretrosies.com/Top_Secret_Rosies/Home.html In the latter half of the documentary, we meet the programmers of Eniac. It seems the male scientists were Electrical_Engineers, first and foremost. They left the tedious wire plugging demo for the cream of the ballistics calculating department, Betty Jean Jennings.
kayman 14y ago
The word programming causes one to conjure up an image of wizard effect. Someone sitting in a chair and coming up with awesome ideas. Then they bang on the keyboard and stuff spews out. How about we relabel programming something akin with arts. Code is just the utensil. Like oil for painting?
walshemj 14y ago
pre electronic computers originally programmers where clerks that did repative calculations by hand and most of those where women.
- Someone 14y ago
  Those weren't programmers, they were computers (http://www.computersciencelab.com/ComputerHistory/History.htm http://www.computersciencelab.com/ComputerHistory/History.ht..., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing_hardware#Desktop_calculators http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing_hardware#D...)
pauljonas 14y ago
When I first broke into the realm of professional computer programming, after graduation in the late 80s with a Computer Science degree, the teams I worked on were populated with just as many, if not more, women than men. In total contrast to a Ruby conference I volunteered to help out a few years where the only woman in the conference presence was the SO of the conference founder. Can only speculate on the sociological reasons for this shift, other than toss a personal observation that comparatively, it seems men were the more geeked out, enamored with technology than women who seemed to hold a more pragmatic outlook and confined "work" to working hours only.

32 points by cup 14y ago

2011. I think this was discussed here when it was first published. This is definitely an interesting article.

The first day of our CS class was going to the (a) CS museum and showing us pictures of the early programmers ( who were all cis females)

camelite 14y ago
How do you know they were cis?
- seivan 14y ago
  I assumed back then they would not photograph what would (back then) be considered "not normal". Just an assumption, I guess it does sound stupid.

lkrubner 14y ago

Women tend to get chased out of any industry that is shrinking, especially if the industry continues to offer good pay to the survivors. The medical profession has grown, so we have more women doctors. The computer industry has shrunk, so women are getting pushed out. The number of computer programmers in America has shrunk by more than 30%. Sources: Stats from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (USA): http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/computer-programmers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/c... 2010 Number of Jobs 363,100 Especially worth a look: http://americawhatwentwrong.org/story/programming-jobs-fall/ http://americawhatwentwrong.org/story/programming-jobs-fall/ "In its 1990 Occupational Outlook Handbook, the U.S. Department of Labor was especially bullish: “The need for programmers will increase as businesses, government, schools and scientific organizations seek new applications for computers and improvements to the software already in use [and] further automation . . . will drive the growth of programmer employment.” The report predicted that the greatest demand would be for programmers with four years of college who would earn above-average salaries. When Labor made these projections in 1990, there were 565,000 computer programmers. With computer usage expanding, the department predicted that “employment of programmers is expected to grow much faster than the average for all occupations through the year 2005 . . .” It didn’t. Employment fluctuated in the years following the report, then settled into a slow downward pattern after 2000. By 2002, the number of programmers had slipped to 499,000. That was down 12 percent–not up–from 1990. Nonetheless, the Labor Department was still optimistic that the field would create jobs–not at the robust rate the agency had predicted, but at least at the same rate as the economy as a whole. Wrong again. By 2006, with the actual number of programming jobs continuing to decline, even that illusion couldn’t be maintained. With the number of jobs falling to 435,000, or 130,000 fewer than in 1990, Labor finally acknowledged that jobs in computer programming were “expected to decline slowly.” "

DavidWoof 14y ago
"Computer programmer" jobs have declined largely because the new BLS categories of web developer and software developer have exploded. US Software Developer jobs are increasing at a rate much higher than average. Check out http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/home.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/h... for the new breakdown of what used to be "programmer". But even if you step away from the numbers for a moment, do you seriously believe that "the computer industry has shrunk" since the 1970s? Seriously?
- Uchikoma 14y ago
  Astonishing, they make a difference between "computer programmer" and "software developer".
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    Software developers are the creative minds who design the software on laptops with external keyboards whilst wearing bluetooth headsets. Computer programmers work in offices and translate the creative vision of cool guys with sideswept hair into computer code. TIL
  - zb 14y ago
    Historically speaking, this is completely correct: before there were compilers, a "programmer" was someone who did what is now done by compilers. The actual software was designed by engineers. (Earlier than that, even, a programmer was someone who physically toggled the switches to input programs written by engineers into a computer.) The only reason there are any jobs left in this category is that there are companies who still believe (incorrectly) that we should have "programmers" doing the mechanical task of translating UML diagrams drawn by "architects" into code. I am glad to see this category shrinking (in favour of the software development/engineering categories) - because everybody in this industry deserves to have the creative value of their work recognised - and I hope to see it approach zero in the near future. http://www.zerobanana.com/essays/reclaiming-software-engineering/ http://www.zerobanana.com/essays/reclaiming-software-enginee...

jayshahtx 14y ago

"The numbers suggest that women with aptitude are out there; they’re just not choosing computer science" Pretty sure no one thinks women with aptitude aren't "out there".

walshemj 14y ago
probably because the average lawyer or doctor has higher status and a more secure future :-)

Nzen 14y ago

Funny, a 'women programmer' piece that starts in 1967. How about 1946? http://www.topsecretrosies.com/Top_Secret_Rosies/Home.html http://www.topsecretrosies.com/Top_Secret_Rosies/Home.html In the latter half of the documentary, we meet the programmers of Eniac. It seems the male scientists were Electrical_Engineers, first and foremost. They left the tedious wire plugging demo for the cream of the ballistics calculating department, Betty Jean Jennings.

kayman 14y ago

The word programming causes one to conjure up an image of wizard effect. Someone sitting in a chair and coming up with awesome ideas. Then they bang on the keyboard and stuff spews out. How about we relabel programming something akin with arts. Code is just the utensil. Like oil for painting?

walshemj 14y ago

pre electronic computers originally programmers where clerks that did repative calculations by hand and most of those where women.

Someone 14y ago
Those weren't programmers, they were computers (http://www.computersciencelab.com/ComputerHistory/History.htm http://www.computersciencelab.com/ComputerHistory/History.ht..., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing_hardware#Desktop_calculators http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_computing_hardware#D...)

pauljonas 14y ago

When I first broke into the realm of professional computer programming, after graduation in the late 80s with a Computer Science degree, the teams I worked on were populated with just as many, if not more, women than men. In total contrast to a Ruby conference I volunteered to help out a few years where the only woman in the conference presence was the SO of the conference founder. Can only speculate on the sociological reasons for this shift, other than toss a personal observation that comparatively, it seems men were the more geeked out, enamored with technology than women who seemed to hold a more pragmatic outlook and confined "work" to working hours only.