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I really hate that the headline references "a Start-Up’s Spirit" when they recently did just about the most technologically and culturally backwards move possib

I really hate that the headline references "a Start-Up’s Spirit" when they recently did just about the most technologically and culturally backwards move possible. This is the kind of move that a nimble startup would reject and a slow-moving and backwards big company would embrace. The article cites Yahoo's desire to attempt to compete with top companies for prime talent. Yet they're throwing away the chance on hiring top remote developers and relying on such innovative workforce management techniques as "your butt better physically be in this chair from 9 to 5."

gruseom 14y ago
Most startups that I respect side with Meyer on this issue of colocated teams. There's much room for disagreement or, to put it positively, experimentation here. But there's no basis at all for acting like this is settled and anyone who disagrees with you is "backwards". In threads about this, I feel like a lot of HNers who want to work remotely have been very vocal, acting like there's a consensus among anybody smart when in fact exactly the opposite is the case, and to some extent crowding out substantive discussion. Personally, I agree with Marissa. I want my team in the same location and preferably the same room. It makes a huge difference to the quality of collaboration and discussion. If what you're trying to do doesn't depend so much on collaboration, then fine, but what I'm trying to do does.
- pasbesoin 14y ago
  I for one care less about working remotely than about being forced to work in a noisy, distracting open space environment. (Or, for that matter, in offices having no sound insulation, which can be as bad if not worse.) Consistently, I've found that the people who like such environments tend to be the ones creating superficial solutions full of errors and short-sightedness. Group dynamics subsequently spread the fallout from such shortcomings. (I've come to think of corporations principally as a mechanism for risk dilution, in this respect.) But, for those who find this insufficient, the process is exhausting. It goes further than that, for me. I simply can't think in the midst of the noise. Being able to work wherever, from wherever, is also attractive. But wasting my time and energy on what I find to be counter-productive noise -- that's the worst. I'm actually rather good at collaboration, including face-to-face. I refuse to sit next to someone and work to ignore them, for hours on end, when there is no point to it other than achieving a "best practices" (read, square footage and most superficial measurement of cost reducing) workplace. So, I have this "attitude". (I don't express it as such; instead, I politely request and explain my preference.) Yet I've repeated ended up being the person with an extensive network throughout very large organizations. I help other people out, and some of them remember this and return the favor. (I inevitably end up finding a community of like minded individuals.) Real collaboration, as opposed to simple co-location. P.S. Sigh. Sorry if I got a bit ranty, here. But this topic really pushes my buttons. In the "corporate" environment, I'd be repeatedly lauded -- highly -- for my work. But when I broached this topic -- a polite request for a quieter workspace -- it was, officially at least, a non-starter. Certain managers did what they could, unofficially. Others were simply critical. Too many people want "high performers" -- and lament their dearth -- but they refuse to listen to those people's real requirements. And I've too often seen arbitrary edicts substituted for real, attentive, you-have-to-work-at-it-and-earn-that-big-salary management. I can understand the "other side". But, individually, I've come more and more to the decision to lend it little of my respect.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - pasbesoin 14y ago
    I saw last night that someone responded to my comment, but I was too tired to read it thorouhgly and address it then and left it for today. I see now that that response is gone. I hope that, "rantiness" aside, I was and would address the topic in a respectful (at least, as regards the conversation here) and productive fashion. I do get... "agitated" about this topic, because for so long I was told that I was the one who needed to adjust and accommodate and "get used to" the status quo (ever noisier shared workspaces). And I tried. And tried. And tried.... It didn't get any easier for me. Even when I would deliberately pick out noisy cafes and try to work there in order to "train" myself. I wasn't asking for the world. Just for a quiet workspace. I didn't mind people interrupting me for a purpose. I just didn't want to spend my days tuning out activity that did not directly involve me. And much of that activity, in my particular environments, was not even work. It's very frustrating to be trying to be trying hard to get something done while your cubemate is engaged in their daily, extensive socializing. Let those who do such rise or fall on their own merits. I'd rather stay out of that. Just don't disrupt my own work, while you're at it. And don't tell me to "get with the program", when I finally point it out.

gruseom 14y ago

Most startups that I respect side with Meyer on this issue of colocated teams. There's much room for disagreement or, to put it positively, experimentation here. But there's no basis at all for acting like this is settled and anyone who disagrees with you is "backwards". In threads about this, I feel like a lot of HNers who want to work remotely have been very vocal, acting like there's a consensus among anybody smart when in fact exactly the opposite is the case, and to some extent crowding out substantive discussion. Personally, I agree with Marissa. I want my team in the same location and preferably the same room. It makes a huge difference to the quality of collaboration and discussion. If what you're trying to do doesn't depend so much on collaboration, then fine, but what I'm trying to do does.

pasbesoin 14y ago
I for one care less about working remotely than about being forced to work in a noisy, distracting open space environment. (Or, for that matter, in offices having no sound insulation, which can be as bad if not worse.) Consistently, I've found that the people who like such environments tend to be the ones creating superficial solutions full of errors and short-sightedness. Group dynamics subsequently spread the fallout from such shortcomings. (I've come to think of corporations principally as a mechanism for risk dilution, in this respect.) But, for those who find this insufficient, the process is exhausting. It goes further than that, for me. I simply can't think in the midst of the noise. Being able to work wherever, from wherever, is also attractive. But wasting my time and energy on what I find to be counter-productive noise -- that's the worst. I'm actually rather good at collaboration, including face-to-face. I refuse to sit next to someone and work to ignore them, for hours on end, when there is no point to it other than achieving a "best practices" (read, square footage and most superficial measurement of cost reducing) workplace. So, I have this "attitude". (I don't express it as such; instead, I politely request and explain my preference.) Yet I've repeated ended up being the person with an extensive network throughout very large organizations. I help other people out, and some of them remember this and return the favor. (I inevitably end up finding a community of like minded individuals.) Real collaboration, as opposed to simple co-location. P.S. Sigh. Sorry if I got a bit ranty, here. But this topic really pushes my buttons. In the "corporate" environment, I'd be repeatedly lauded -- highly -- for my work. But when I broached this topic -- a polite request for a quieter workspace -- it was, officially at least, a non-starter. Certain managers did what they could, unofficially. Others were simply critical. Too many people want "high performers" -- and lament their dearth -- but they refuse to listen to those people's real requirements. And I've too often seen arbitrary edicts substituted for real, attentive, you-have-to-work-at-it-and-earn-that-big-salary management. I can understand the "other side". But, individually, I've come more and more to the decision to lend it little of my respect.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- pasbesoin 14y ago
  I saw last night that someone responded to my comment, but I was too tired to read it thorouhgly and address it then and left it for today. I see now that that response is gone. I hope that, "rantiness" aside, I was and would address the topic in a respectful (at least, as regards the conversation here) and productive fashion. I do get... "agitated" about this topic, because for so long I was told that I was the one who needed to adjust and accommodate and "get used to" the status quo (ever noisier shared workspaces). And I tried. And tried. And tried.... It didn't get any easier for me. Even when I would deliberately pick out noisy cafes and try to work there in order to "train" myself. I wasn't asking for the world. Just for a quiet workspace. I didn't mind people interrupting me for a purpose. I just didn't want to spend my days tuning out activity that did not directly involve me. And much of that activity, in my particular environments, was not even work. It's very frustrating to be trying to be trying hard to get something done while your cubemate is engaged in their daily, extensive socializing. Let those who do such rise or fall on their own merits. I'd rather stay out of that. Just don't disrupt my own work, while you're at it. And don't tell me to "get with the program", when I finally point it out.