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> At this point you’ve put in the time. There you go. There’s no way around that. I heard Darren LaCroix[1] describe a Comedy career like that is a 4-yr educat

> At this point you’ve put in the time. There you go. There’s no way around that. I heard Darren LaCroix[1] describe a Comedy career like that is a 4-yr education, just like college. 4-years starting from the initial point of getting on stage for the first time. Hundreds of gigs, some unpaid. Bombing on stage, driving to some gigs two-hours one-way. Working from 5 min. of material to 15 min. to being an opening act to headlining. And eventually you become seasoned enough that you can handle any crowd, deliver your routine, focus people's attention, entertain the audience, enlighten them, make people laugh enough that they forget and escape the reality of their lives... like a professional. Darren makes $5k+ as a keynote speaker per gig and he did say that the $5k is not for the 30-min or hour he speaks - it is for the thousands of hours he put in (the 2-hr drives, the bombing, the 3/4 empty audiences in small clubs) to get to the point where people know he is going to deliver an inspiring, humorous message to the delegates at a business convetion. As for a comedy special on HBO - 1 hr of material. That's the equivalent of making the major leagues. [1] http://www.angelfire.com/az2/D3tmLeadership3/DarrenLaCroix_Speech.html http://www.angelfire.com/az2/D3tmLeadership3/DarrenLaCroix_S... Technically, he is not a professional comedian now but he applies comedy to business and public speaking training.

gnosis 14y ago
"Darren makes $5k+ as a keynote speaker per gig and he did say that the $5k is not for the 30-min or hour he speaks - it is for the thousands of hours he put in" That reminds me of this story by Chuang Tzu: Cook Ting was cutting up an ox for Lord Wen-hui. At every touch of his hand, every heave of his shoulder, every move of his feet, every thrust of his knee, the ox came apart with a zip. He slithered the knife along with a zing, and all was in perfect rhythm, as though he were performing the dance of the Mulberry Grove or keeping time to the Ching-shou music. "Ah, this is marvelous!" said Lord Wen-hui. "Imagine skill reaching such heights!" Cook Ting laid down his knife and replied, "What I care about is the Way, which goes beyond skill. "When I first began cutting up oxen, all I could see was the ox itself. After three years I no longer saw the whole ox. And now -- now I go at it by spirit and don’t look with my eyes. Perception and understanding have come to a stop and spirit moves where it wants. "I go along with the natural makeup, strike in the big hollows, guide the knife through the big openings, and follow things as they are. So I never touch the smallest ligament or tendon, much less a main joint. "A good cook changes his knife once a year, because he cuts. A mediocre cook changes his knife once a month, because he hacks. I’ve had this knife of mine for nineteen years and I’ve cut up thousands of oxen with it, and yet the blade is still as newly sharpened. "There are spaces between the joints, and the blade of the knife has really no thickness. If you insert what has no thickness into such spaces, then there’s plenty of room, more than enough for the blade to play about in. That’s why after nineteen years the blade of my knife is still as newly sharpened. "However, whenever I come to a complicated place, I size up the difficulties, tell myself to watch out and be careful, keep my eyes on what I’m doing, work very slowly, and move the knife with the greatest subtlety, until -- flop! the whole thing comes apart like a clod of earth crumbling to the ground. "I stand there holding the knife and look all around me, completely satisfied and reluctant to move on, and then I wipe off the knife and put it away." "Excellent!" said Lord Wen-hui. "I have heard the words of Cook Ting and learned how to care for life!" Of course, despite this, the butcher is still going to make $10 an hour, not $5k+ like Darren LaCroix. So I think it's a bit of an oversimplification for Darren and Louis CK to claim they get paid so much simply because they've put in the time and became skilled at what they do. Some professions, (like entertainers, businesspeople, sports stars) are simply much more valued in this society than others. And even in the valued professions, the odds are you could easily work your ass off for decades and fail because of the tremendous competition -- there's no shortage of kids who want to be rock stars or play in the NFL... very few actually make it, despite putting in the time.
- jpwagner 14y ago
  After THAT story, you're going to comment on the monetary value of a profession! I wish you had not added your own words following the quote!
  - gnosis 14y ago
    I know nothing I could say is worthy of following Chuang Tzu. But in this instance, it would have been a mistake to leave the quote to stand on its own.
    - shin_lao 14y ago
      Quite the contrary. By not doing you are closer to perfection than by doing.
      - lostlogin 14y ago
        This is where seeing points would be great - seeing what everyone else things. Both are correct in my view, but I want to know what others think.
        shin_lao 14y ago
        I disagree - again :p - I'm very happy to be freed from the influence of others when reading a comment. Listening to different opinion isn't a poll, isn't it?
        lostlogin 14y ago
        But the HN moral compass tends to be so strong! I have no aversion to running against the grain (and am perversely attracted to it), but like to know the lay of the land before I make a choice on something. I like that the no show policy on points prevents some of my previous behaviour (like staring at a comment which had lots of points, trying hard to work out what the hell was wrong with the voters).

gnosis 14y ago

"Darren makes $5k+ as a keynote speaker per gig and he did say that the $5k is not for the 30-min or hour he speaks - it is for the thousands of hours he put in" That reminds me of this story by Chuang Tzu: Cook Ting was cutting up an ox for Lord Wen-hui. At every touch of his hand, every heave of his shoulder, every move of his feet, every thrust of his knee, the ox came apart with a zip. He slithered the knife along with a zing, and all was in perfect rhythm, as though he were performing the dance of the Mulberry Grove or keeping time to the Ching-shou music. "Ah, this is marvelous!" said Lord Wen-hui. "Imagine skill reaching such heights!" Cook Ting laid down his knife and replied, "What I care about is the Way, which goes beyond skill. "When I first began cutting up oxen, all I could see was the ox itself. After three years I no longer saw the whole ox. And now -- now I go at it by spirit and don’t look with my eyes. Perception and understanding have come to a stop and spirit moves where it wants. "I go along with the natural makeup, strike in the big hollows, guide the knife through the big openings, and follow things as they are. So I never touch the smallest ligament or tendon, much less a main joint. "A good cook changes his knife once a year, because he cuts. A mediocre cook changes his knife once a month, because he hacks. I’ve had this knife of mine for nineteen years and I’ve cut up thousands of oxen with it, and yet the blade is still as newly sharpened. "There are spaces between the joints, and the blade of the knife has really no thickness. If you insert what has no thickness into such spaces, then there’s plenty of room, more than enough for the blade to play about in. That’s why after nineteen years the blade of my knife is still as newly sharpened. "However, whenever I come to a complicated place, I size up the difficulties, tell myself to watch out and be careful, keep my eyes on what I’m doing, work very slowly, and move the knife with the greatest subtlety, until -- flop! the whole thing comes apart like a clod of earth crumbling to the ground. "I stand there holding the knife and look all around me, completely satisfied and reluctant to move on, and then I wipe off the knife and put it away." "Excellent!" said Lord Wen-hui. "I have heard the words of Cook Ting and learned how to care for life!" Of course, despite this, the butcher is still going to make $10 an hour, not $5k+ like Darren LaCroix. So I think it's a bit of an oversimplification for Darren and Louis CK to claim they get paid so much simply because they've put in the time and became skilled at what they do. Some professions, (like entertainers, businesspeople, sports stars) are simply much more valued in this society than others. And even in the valued professions, the odds are you could easily work your ass off for decades and fail because of the tremendous competition -- there's no shortage of kids who want to be rock stars or play in the NFL... very few actually make it, despite putting in the time.

jpwagner 14y ago
After THAT story, you're going to comment on the monetary value of a profession! I wish you had not added your own words following the quote!
- gnosis 14y ago
  I know nothing I could say is worthy of following Chuang Tzu. But in this instance, it would have been a mistake to leave the quote to stand on its own.
  - shin_lao 14y ago
    Quite the contrary. By not doing you are closer to perfection than by doing.
    - lostlogin 14y ago
      This is where seeing points would be great - seeing what everyone else things. Both are correct in my view, but I want to know what others think.
      - shin_lao 14y ago
        I disagree - again :p - I'm very happy to be freed from the influence of others when reading a comment. Listening to different opinion isn't a poll, isn't it?
        lostlogin 14y ago
        But the HN moral compass tends to be so strong! I have no aversion to running against the grain (and am perversely attracted to it), but like to know the lay of the land before I make a choice on something. I like that the no show policy on points prevents some of my previous behaviour (like staring at a comment which had lots of points, trying hard to work out what the hell was wrong with the voters).