3 ms·

I disagree simply because I feel the obligation for a completely transparent government outweighs the need to wage war. How selfish must one be to insist we wag

by thwest 14y ago

I disagree simply because I feel the obligation for a completely transparent government outweighs the need to wage war. How selfish must one be to insist we wage these conflicts where the deaths of many are a certainty.

joyeuse6701 14y ago
The problem with transparency is that there are those who would exploit it. We could all have our passwords publicly available (that would be an interesting experiment), but I'll guess that you wouldn't be willing to post yours here. So I could understand the french gov't not willing to divulge this information at the moment either. If history has been any lesson, conflict will come, regardless of whether you want it or not.
- Evbn 14y ago
  History also teaches that secrecy is a tool of the powerful state forces to oppress and kill the weak civilians.
  - zaphar 14y ago
    History also teaches that secrecy is a tool of those who would like to rebel against powerful state forces that wish to find and kill them.
- dsfasfasf 14y ago
  >>We could all have our passwords publicly available (that would be an interesting experiment), but I'll guess that you wouldn't be willing to post yours here. Come off it. Hyperbole much? Why don't you take it even a bit further and in the name of transparency have everybody walk around nude so that you know, we can see that you are not carrying any weapons. You know the comment you replied to did not talk about transparency to this extreme.
  - salvadors 14y ago
    It did talk of "obligation for a completely transparent government" (emphasis mine).
    - thwest 14y ago
      Maximally might have been a better word choice, or just dropping the adjective. Absolutism never survives scrutiny⸮
philwelch 14y ago
The problem with pacifism is that it gives you no defense against those who aren't pacifists.
- thwest 14y ago
  No one is invading France.
  - philwelch 14y ago
    Nor is France especially pacifistic. I suspect these two facts are somehow related.
    - thwest 14y ago
      Therefore, we should preemptively invade Mali/Iraq/etc? Do we have to strike first, and violently manage other countries just to maintain our defenses? I am not arguing for pacifism. I put the 'need to wage war' into the original moral calculus as a valid consideration, not to dismiss it.
      - philwelch 14y ago
        Deliberately making yourself ineffective at waging war because you don't want to wage war is equivalent to pacifism. There's no value to going out of your way to start wars, but you need the ability to end them decisively.

by thwest 14y ago

joyeuse6701 14y ago

The problem with transparency is that there are those who would exploit it. We could all have our passwords publicly available (that would be an interesting experiment), but I'll guess that you wouldn't be willing to post yours here. So I could understand the french gov't not willing to divulge this information at the moment either. If history has been any lesson, conflict will come, regardless of whether you want it or not.

Evbn 14y ago
History also teaches that secrecy is a tool of the powerful state forces to oppress and kill the weak civilians.
- zaphar 14y ago
  History also teaches that secrecy is a tool of those who would like to rebel against powerful state forces that wish to find and kill them.
dsfasfasf 14y ago
>>We could all have our passwords publicly available (that would be an interesting experiment), but I'll guess that you wouldn't be willing to post yours here. Come off it. Hyperbole much? Why don't you take it even a bit further and in the name of transparency have everybody walk around nude so that you know, we can see that you are not carrying any weapons. You know the comment you replied to did not talk about transparency to this extreme.
- salvadors 14y ago
  It did talk of "obligation for a completely transparent government" (emphasis mine).
  - thwest 14y ago
    Maximally might have been a better word choice, or just dropping the adjective. Absolutism never survives scrutiny⸮

philwelch 14y ago

The problem with pacifism is that it gives you no defense against those who aren't pacifists.

thwest 14y ago
No one is invading France.
- philwelch 14y ago
  Nor is France especially pacifistic. I suspect these two facts are somehow related.
  - thwest 14y ago
    Therefore, we should preemptively invade Mali/Iraq/etc? Do we have to strike first, and violently manage other countries just to maintain our defenses? I am not arguing for pacifism. I put the 'need to wage war' into the original moral calculus as a valid consideration, not to dismiss it.
    - philwelch 14y ago
      Deliberately making yourself ineffective at waging war because you don't want to wage war is equivalent to pacifism. There's no value to going out of your way to start wars, but you need the ability to end them decisively.