7 ms·

The modern equivalent of a Linksys WRT54GL is the ASUS RT-N16. It runs OpenWrt, DD-WRT, and Tomato variants really well, does 802.11n (only one frequency) and h

The modern equivalent of a Linksys WRT54GL is the ASUS RT-N16. It runs OpenWrt, DD-WRT, and Tomato variants really well, does 802.11n (only one frequency) and has plenty of memory and flash storage for extra hacking. The ASUS RT-N66U is frequently advised if you want 5GHz 802.11n as well. The other router mentioned in this article, the Linksys EA2700, doesn't seem compatible with third party firmware. And apparently the Cisco firmware is buggy, no surprise there. It is an awfully cheap Dual-Band 802.11n router, but if you can't put working software on it it's useless. I don't understand why some major router manufacturer doesn't just sell routers pre-installed with Tomato. It's easy to use, stable, and works way better than any crap the router companies cobble together. Flashing new firmware on a stock ASUS router is too complex for ordinary consumers.

vacri 14y ago
Thank you for the info - do you know if there's an ADSL modem that's good for DD-WRT these days? Last I looked (yeeeaaaars ago) there were only two models, long since out of production, and they didn't seem to be going in that direction anymore.
- justincormack 14y ago
  Still seems to be very little. You can get some boxes that convert adsl to ethernet (ATM over ethernet or whatever standard your country uses) that basically have no config and connect those to a router.
  - StavrosK 14y ago
    That's how I did it, connected my WRT-54GL (Tomato) to a D-Link modem/router, works fantastically well.
    - uxp 14y ago
      Are you thinking of Bridged mode? I used to do this until something happened at my ISP and my router can no longer authenticate against my ISP's PPPoE server. Now I have my modem providing NAT and DHCP, and my router is just a dumb access point. The only problem is my modem has an externally accessible administration page running on port 4567, and telnet on port 1111 that I can't turn off, even when all remote management configuration options are turned off. I've had to set up a cronscript to attempt to telnet into the thing continuously, and if successful it will kill the httpd server and telnet daemon. It's absolutely ridiculous how insecure home network equipment is.
      - StavrosK 14y ago
        Yeah, I'm running in bridged mode, it works great. I used to run it like your current setup, but now I can finally run the Tomato router as my main one, and QoS is just too amazing to pass up on...
      - fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
        >It's absolutely ridiculous how insecure home network equipment is. But remember not to leave your wireless access open to passers-by. That helps hackers, and Al-Qaeda, and pedophiles, and drug dealers! /sarcasm
      - vacri 14y ago
        UPnP is the one that gives me concern. User programs can punch holes in your firewall without you knowing about it. Now you have a port open on your firewall... pointed at someone's computer without your knowledge. UPnP goes off - if you want that port open, let's talk about it, little software thingy.
        Hello71 14y ago
        UPnP does not decrease security in a home/SMB environment. There is a good reason why reverse shells exist.
- montecarl 14y ago
  Why would you run linux on your modem? Unless its a hybrid modem/router.
  - username111 14y ago
    I haven't seen a modem (from a telecom) that isn't a router in the past 5 years. Most ship wireless router/modems to their customers these days as standard. Cable companies might still ship modems (they did the last time I had cable internet, but that was probably 8 years ago).
    - montecarl 14y ago
      Thats awful. It looks like you can purchase a standalone ADSL model for about $30: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825165003 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825165... That coupled with a router/wireless ap running tomato or the like should work well from what I understand. I, however, never have used DSL so I'm not an expert.
    - SoftwareMaven 14y ago
      Many of the DSL routers can be put in bridge mode. I run an Asus RT-N16 as my router connected up to the "modem" (now in bridge mode) provided by my DSL provider.
    - Groxx 14y ago
      After having several crappy modem/router/wifi things from ISPs, I've taken to buying routers independently. Usually less than $50 (if anything, since you can reuse them), and always less of a pain. There's nothing to return, I get DD-WRT instead of whatever garbage they're running, and usually measurably faster in both internet speed (usually lower latency) and wifi speed. In particular, I've never had a bundled device get within 50% of what 802.11n is capable of, especially when you have 4 or more devices. All my dedicated routers have done just fine.
    - ConstantineXVI 14y ago
      Insight Cable (recently acquired by TWC, sigh) has been installing a plain modem + cheap Belkin router for years now. Amusingly, they always set the SSID to 'insight_wifi_XXXX' and their formula for WPA keys is `firstname[0] + lastname + housenumber`.
illuminate 14y ago
Why? Control, keeping the advanced software features out of the low tier products and planned obsolescence.
montecarl 14y ago
I am the owner of an ASUS RT-N16. I purchased it when my Linksys WRT-54G died after 4 years. It really is a fantastic wifi router for the reasons you list. However, if you live in an apartment complex you might find the 2.4GHz spectrum very crowded. Especially if there are others with 2.4GHz 802.11n, which uses more channels than 802.11b/g. This might make it worthwhile to purchase a 5 Ghz 802.11n router.
- jseliger 14y ago
  Definitely. There appear to be more than 30 named networks within range of my iMac. That's one reason I've wired my iMac and my fiancee's iMac with cat6; as I wrote in another comment day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5192837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5192837 : It's also amazing how prevalent Ethernet still is, even when wireless is a competitor. The other day I left this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5052448 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5052448 on HN, because in some circumstances running a cheap ethernet cable from a router to a desk, couch, or other work station can still be a real win, especially given how inexpensive even very long ethernet cables are from Monoprice.com. They last forever, aren't subject to the level of interference wireless is, and, in many conditions, have faster data transfer speeds. Ethernet is still great.
  - pjmlp 14y ago
    I do the same, because my building is so crowded the connection drops all the time, even if I am sitting next to the router. :(
    - fencepost 14y ago
      Switch to 5 GHz. You'll need a new router and WiFi adapters, but they're available. You won't have quite the range, but even business locations with dozens of 2.4 GHz networks (e.g. Physician office buildings) will have 1-2 5GHz networks total, and most off the shelf consumer laptops don't support it right now so adoption will take a while.
      - 14y ago
adamfeldman 14y ago
After running DD-WRT on a WRT54GL for years I tried the RT-N16 and got terrible network throughout over WiFi even within 5-15ft. Maybe the issue has been solved in the last few months but I was very disappointed.
- joenathan 14y ago
  You need to adjust the default xmit power, in Tomato I use 63. There is a guy would did a bunch of testing of xmit power for the RT-N16 here http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/asus-rt-n16-transmit-power.33078/ http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/asus-rt-n16-tra...
  - ibrahima 14y ago
    Oh woah, seriously? I use Tomato and it seems like the default is 17, no wonder I've been having some issues with range. I just thought it was because my neighbors were setting up more wifi routers. Will try that out, thanks! The one thing I'm worried about though is whether that setting of 63 is worse for shorter distances. From my limited experience with building a simple radio transmitter/receiver and amplifiers, if your received signal is too strong it'll just saturate and turn to crap, and as it happens my bedroom is right next to the room with the router in it, so boosting the signal might screw up reception on my phone. But at least now I know that there's room to play around here, thanks for letting me know!
davidjade 14y ago
I just bought and re-flashed an ASUS RT-N16 with TomatoUSB (Shibby fork) last week and it is a great router. For me it has great stability and range. I had previously used Tomato on an older router and liked it so I stuck with it. You can use the ASUS recovery mode software to directly flash with custom firmware images. My understanding is that because it has this special recovery mode it is virtually un-brickable.
NelsonMinar 14y ago
BTW, if you want to help a non-geek install Tomato, the folks at EasyTomato have done great work making an accessible version of the firmware: http://www.easytomato.org/ http://www.easytomato.org/
justin66 14y ago
> It runs OpenWrt, DD-WRT, and Tomato variants really well You're sure about that? I've had an rt-n16 sitting on a shelf for over a year waiting for OpenWrt support. Your message caused me to go check their website, and all it says is: "The Asus RT-N16 has early support in Barrier Breaker (trunk) only!"
- mturmon 14y ago
  According to http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Asus_RT-N16 http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Asus_RT-N16 there is support for dd-wrt, apparently since late 2010. You understand that Barrier Breaker is pre-release, right?
  - justin66 14y ago
    Yes, I understand Barrier Breaker is pre-release. That is precisely why, when NelsonMinar suggested the RT-N16 runs OpenWrt "really well," I asked if he was sure. I am uninterested in dd-wrt, which is why I didn't mention it.
    - mturmon 14y ago
      I see. Your quote mentioned dd-wrt, which threw me off.
- NelsonMinar 14y ago
  Actually, no, I don't know anything about running OpenWrt on an RT-N16 and shouldn't have included it in my list. Sorry for the mistake! As noted by other commenters apparently it's only supported in WIP versions, details at http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/asus/rt-n16 http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/asus/rt-n16
  - justin66 14y ago
    Thank you!
ajb 14y ago
Consumer routers are a low margin product. Vendors want to do as little work as possible, so they ship mostly the software provided by the silicon vendor.
jwr 14y ago
Tomato works fine until you need QoS. Then it hangs sporadically. Verified with two different router types.
- 14113 14y ago
  I feel like it'd be cheaper for manufacturers to write better QoS drivers specifically for tomato, or wrt, than whole new firmwares, surely?
- mbetter 14y ago
  Not here.
- dhughes 14y ago
  Every router I ever owned that I put Tomato firmware on I could never get any version of QoS to work correctly. It's a free firmware and great other than QoS but who am I to complain :/
- NelsonMinar 14y ago
  Hmm, I've used QoS in Tomato for years. The early versions of Tomato had a very simple QoS build. The latest Toastman builds have some 30+ rules. All versions seem to work OK for me. But I'm sure it depends on traffic and would be hard to debug if it did fail.
- driverdan 14y ago
  Interestingly I found the N16 stock firmware to have the best QoS of any router I've used. It requires no configuration and always seemed to work great. DD-WRT's QoS, on the other hand, can require significant effort to configure correctly.
IheartApplesDix 14y ago
Nobody here seems to realize that these firmware upgrades do little to adress these issues. Tomato explicitly says its a UI update only..
josteink 14y ago
> The modern equivalent of a Linksys WRT54GL is the ASUS RT-N16 When I was in the market for something like that one or two years back, I was recommended a specific type of Buffalo Router [1]. While I see my particular model has been superceeded by newer ones, I still thought I'd mention it because: 1. It was recommended to me by someone who had been served it extremely well by it in the past. It has now served me extremely well for years. It will probably do you good as well. 2. It's OK to support more than the top 3 vendors in the world with your money. This leads to more competition, more diversity and better products. 3. Putting stock dd-wrt or openwrt on it can be done all in browser and doesn't seem to involve brick risking procedures like bootloader updates, like I see you may have to go through for the Asus router. [1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0028ACYEK http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0028ACYEK

vacri 14y ago

Thank you for the info - do you know if there's an ADSL modem that's good for DD-WRT these days? Last I looked (yeeeaaaars ago) there were only two models, long since out of production, and they didn't seem to be going in that direction anymore.

justincormack 14y ago
Still seems to be very little. You can get some boxes that convert adsl to ethernet (ATM over ethernet or whatever standard your country uses) that basically have no config and connect those to a router.
- StavrosK 14y ago
  That's how I did it, connected my WRT-54GL (Tomato) to a D-Link modem/router, works fantastically well.
  - uxp 14y ago
    Are you thinking of Bridged mode? I used to do this until something happened at my ISP and my router can no longer authenticate against my ISP's PPPoE server. Now I have my modem providing NAT and DHCP, and my router is just a dumb access point. The only problem is my modem has an externally accessible administration page running on port 4567, and telnet on port 1111 that I can't turn off, even when all remote management configuration options are turned off. I've had to set up a cronscript to attempt to telnet into the thing continuously, and if successful it will kill the httpd server and telnet daemon. It's absolutely ridiculous how insecure home network equipment is.
    - StavrosK 14y ago
      Yeah, I'm running in bridged mode, it works great. I used to run it like your current setup, but now I can finally run the Tomato router as my main one, and QoS is just too amazing to pass up on...
    - fnordfnordfnord 14y ago
      >It's absolutely ridiculous how insecure home network equipment is. But remember not to leave your wireless access open to passers-by. That helps hackers, and Al-Qaeda, and pedophiles, and drug dealers! /sarcasm
    - vacri 14y ago
      UPnP is the one that gives me concern. User programs can punch holes in your firewall without you knowing about it. Now you have a port open on your firewall... pointed at someone's computer without your knowledge. UPnP goes off - if you want that port open, let's talk about it, little software thingy.
      - Hello71 14y ago
        UPnP does not decrease security in a home/SMB environment. There is a good reason why reverse shells exist.
montecarl 14y ago
Why would you run linux on your modem? Unless its a hybrid modem/router.
- username111 14y ago
  I haven't seen a modem (from a telecom) that isn't a router in the past 5 years. Most ship wireless router/modems to their customers these days as standard. Cable companies might still ship modems (they did the last time I had cable internet, but that was probably 8 years ago).
  - montecarl 14y ago
    Thats awful. It looks like you can purchase a standalone ADSL model for about $30: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825165003 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825165... That coupled with a router/wireless ap running tomato or the like should work well from what I understand. I, however, never have used DSL so I'm not an expert.
  - SoftwareMaven 14y ago
    Many of the DSL routers can be put in bridge mode. I run an Asus RT-N16 as my router connected up to the "modem" (now in bridge mode) provided by my DSL provider.
  - Groxx 14y ago
    After having several crappy modem/router/wifi things from ISPs, I've taken to buying routers independently. Usually less than $50 (if anything, since you can reuse them), and always less of a pain. There's nothing to return, I get DD-WRT instead of whatever garbage they're running, and usually measurably faster in both internet speed (usually lower latency) and wifi speed. In particular, I've never had a bundled device get within 50% of what 802.11n is capable of, especially when you have 4 or more devices. All my dedicated routers have done just fine.
  - ConstantineXVI 14y ago
    Insight Cable (recently acquired by TWC, sigh) has been installing a plain modem + cheap Belkin router for years now. Amusingly, they always set the SSID to 'insight_wifi_XXXX' and their formula for WPA keys is `firstname[0] + lastname + housenumber`.

illuminate 14y ago

Why? Control, keeping the advanced software features out of the low tier products and planned obsolescence.

montecarl 14y ago

I am the owner of an ASUS RT-N16. I purchased it when my Linksys WRT-54G died after 4 years. It really is a fantastic wifi router for the reasons you list. However, if you live in an apartment complex you might find the 2.4GHz spectrum very crowded. Especially if there are others with 2.4GHz 802.11n, which uses more channels than 802.11b/g. This might make it worthwhile to purchase a 5 Ghz 802.11n router.

jseliger 14y ago
Definitely. There appear to be more than 30 named networks within range of my iMac. That's one reason I've wired my iMac and my fiancee's iMac with cat6; as I wrote in another comment day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5192837 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5192837 : It's also amazing how prevalent Ethernet still is, even when wireless is a competitor. The other day I left this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5052448 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5052448 on HN, because in some circumstances running a cheap ethernet cable from a router to a desk, couch, or other work station can still be a real win, especially given how inexpensive even very long ethernet cables are from Monoprice.com. They last forever, aren't subject to the level of interference wireless is, and, in many conditions, have faster data transfer speeds. Ethernet is still great.
- pjmlp 14y ago
  I do the same, because my building is so crowded the connection drops all the time, even if I am sitting next to the router. :(
  - fencepost 14y ago
    Switch to 5 GHz. You'll need a new router and WiFi adapters, but they're available. You won't have quite the range, but even business locations with dozens of 2.4 GHz networks (e.g. Physician office buildings) will have 1-2 5GHz networks total, and most off the shelf consumer laptops don't support it right now so adoption will take a while.
    - 14y ago

adamfeldman 14y ago

After running DD-WRT on a WRT54GL for years I tried the RT-N16 and got terrible network throughout over WiFi even within 5-15ft. Maybe the issue has been solved in the last few months but I was very disappointed.

joenathan 14y ago
You need to adjust the default xmit power, in Tomato I use 63. There is a guy would did a bunch of testing of xmit power for the RT-N16 here http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/asus-rt-n16-transmit-power.33078/ http://www.linksysinfo.org/index.php?threads/asus-rt-n16-tra...
- ibrahima 14y ago
  Oh woah, seriously? I use Tomato and it seems like the default is 17, no wonder I've been having some issues with range. I just thought it was because my neighbors were setting up more wifi routers. Will try that out, thanks! The one thing I'm worried about though is whether that setting of 63 is worse for shorter distances. From my limited experience with building a simple radio transmitter/receiver and amplifiers, if your received signal is too strong it'll just saturate and turn to crap, and as it happens my bedroom is right next to the room with the router in it, so boosting the signal might screw up reception on my phone. But at least now I know that there's room to play around here, thanks for letting me know!

davidjade 14y ago

I just bought and re-flashed an ASUS RT-N16 with TomatoUSB (Shibby fork) last week and it is a great router. For me it has great stability and range. I had previously used Tomato on an older router and liked it so I stuck with it. You can use the ASUS recovery mode software to directly flash with custom firmware images. My understanding is that because it has this special recovery mode it is virtually un-brickable.

NelsonMinar 14y ago

BTW, if you want to help a non-geek install Tomato, the folks at EasyTomato have done great work making an accessible version of the firmware: http://www.easytomato.org/ http://www.easytomato.org/

justin66 14y ago

> It runs OpenWrt, DD-WRT, and Tomato variants really well You're sure about that? I've had an rt-n16 sitting on a shelf for over a year waiting for OpenWrt support. Your message caused me to go check their website, and all it says is: "The Asus RT-N16 has early support in Barrier Breaker (trunk) only!"

mturmon 14y ago
According to http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Asus_RT-N16 http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Asus_RT-N16 there is support for dd-wrt, apparently since late 2010. You understand that Barrier Breaker is pre-release, right?
- justin66 14y ago
  Yes, I understand Barrier Breaker is pre-release. That is precisely why, when NelsonMinar suggested the RT-N16 runs OpenWrt "really well," I asked if he was sure. I am uninterested in dd-wrt, which is why I didn't mention it.
  - mturmon 14y ago
    I see. Your quote mentioned dd-wrt, which threw me off.
NelsonMinar 14y ago
Actually, no, I don't know anything about running OpenWrt on an RT-N16 and shouldn't have included it in my list. Sorry for the mistake! As noted by other commenters apparently it's only supported in WIP versions, details at http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/asus/rt-n16 http://wiki.openwrt.org/toh/asus/rt-n16
- justin66 14y ago
  Thank you!

ajb 14y ago

Consumer routers are a low margin product. Vendors want to do as little work as possible, so they ship mostly the software provided by the silicon vendor.

jwr 14y ago

Tomato works fine until you need QoS. Then it hangs sporadically. Verified with two different router types.

14113 14y ago
I feel like it'd be cheaper for manufacturers to write better QoS drivers specifically for tomato, or wrt, than whole new firmwares, surely?
mbetter 14y ago
Not here.
dhughes 14y ago
Every router I ever owned that I put Tomato firmware on I could never get any version of QoS to work correctly. It's a free firmware and great other than QoS but who am I to complain :/
NelsonMinar 14y ago
Hmm, I've used QoS in Tomato for years. The early versions of Tomato had a very simple QoS build. The latest Toastman builds have some 30+ rules. All versions seem to work OK for me. But I'm sure it depends on traffic and would be hard to debug if it did fail.
driverdan 14y ago
Interestingly I found the N16 stock firmware to have the best QoS of any router I've used. It requires no configuration and always seemed to work great. DD-WRT's QoS, on the other hand, can require significant effort to configure correctly.

IheartApplesDix 14y ago

Nobody here seems to realize that these firmware upgrades do little to adress these issues. Tomato explicitly says its a UI update only..

josteink 14y ago

> The modern equivalent of a Linksys WRT54GL is the ASUS RT-N16 When I was in the market for something like that one or two years back, I was recommended a specific type of Buffalo Router [1]. While I see my particular model has been superceeded by newer ones, I still thought I'd mention it because: 1. It was recommended to me by someone who had been served it extremely well by it in the past. It has now served me extremely well for years. It will probably do you good as well. 2. It's OK to support more than the top 3 vendors in the world with your money. This leads to more competition, more diversity and better products. 3. Putting stock dd-wrt or openwrt on it can be done all in browser and doesn't seem to involve brick risking procedures like bootloader updates, like I see you may have to go through for the Asus router. [1] http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0028ACYEK http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0028ACYEK