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Has anyone that uses Arch called it a mistake?

fijal 14y ago
Yes, tons and tons of confused people popped in on all python IRC channels. Arch devs seem to think their users know everything, but there is enough evidence that not every single arch user reads all the details.
- alexchamberlain 14y ago
  If you don't know enough to maintain your system, you shouldn't use Arch...
- burntsushi 14y ago
  It is intentional. From the Archwiki [1]: > Arch Linux targets and accommodates competent GNU/Linux users by giving them complete control and responsibility over the system. [1] - https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way
  - fijal 14y ago
    I would like to amend it with "all users are required to sign a paper that says they won't bother 3rd party developers before completely understanding the arch way". Seriously, just because you think your software is used in the way X, it doesn't mean it's not used in the way Y too and maybe you should consider thinking about those people too.
bambambazooka 14y ago
yes. using "python3" to run Python 3 would have been possible without breaking existing scripts. Also you can switch your entire infrastrucutre to use "python3" without breaking anything. I don't say switching to Python 3 was to early or the worst thing in the world. I'm just not sure if changing the "python" symlink to "python3" was great.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
ElliotH 14y ago
It was confusing for a while and broke some stuff. I haven't personally experienced problems in a while though. Mistake? No. It fits in with Arch's personality and made sense. It'd have been a mistake for Ubuntu to do it at the same time ofc! I started to specify my python preference in my #! (ie #!/usr/bin/python3) in my own programs. If everyone did this the move would be much easier.
- shock 14y ago
  I recommend using #!/usr/bin/env python3 as the shebang for portability[1] reasons if you intend to distribute the programs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebang_%28Unix%29#Portability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebang_%28Unix%29#Portability
  - ElliotH 14y ago
    Thanks. Shall switch to using that.
rizumu 14y ago
As a full time Arch user the change was a little annoying at first but now I am perfectly happy using Python3 as the default because all my Python shell scripts and system installed packages work under Python3. I can simply work in a Python2 virtualenv when I need python2.
- alexchamberlain 14y ago
  Agreed, I use virtualenv if I'm hacking up a website at home.
  - smackay 14y ago
    mkvirtualenv <name> --python=pythonx.y --no-site-packages
    - obviouslygreen 14y ago
      As of version 1.7 (2011), --no-site-packages is default behavior. I still specify it every time anyway, but thought it'd be worth mentioning. :) The --python switch is really great, though, particularly now that 3 is getting distro traction and most of us who work in Python are likely maintaining a lot of 2.x projects. Thanks!
ARussell 14y ago
Yes, I use Arch, and I think it was a mistake. Symlinking python to python3 breaks the assumption of virtually every Python dev out there; if you maintain an Arch package that has Python components, you usually have to sed replace the python shebangs with python2. Totally goes against Arch's normal "keep it simple" philosophy.

fijal 14y ago

Yes, tons and tons of confused people popped in on all python IRC channels. Arch devs seem to think their users know everything, but there is enough evidence that not every single arch user reads all the details.

alexchamberlain 14y ago
If you don't know enough to maintain your system, you shouldn't use Arch...
burntsushi 14y ago
It is intentional. From the Archwiki [1]: > Arch Linux targets and accommodates competent GNU/Linux users by giving them complete control and responsibility over the system. [1] - https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way
- fijal 14y ago
  I would like to amend it with "all users are required to sign a paper that says they won't bother 3rd party developers before completely understanding the arch way". Seriously, just because you think your software is used in the way X, it doesn't mean it's not used in the way Y too and maybe you should consider thinking about those people too.

bambambazooka 14y ago

yes. using "python3" to run Python 3 would have been possible without breaking existing scripts. Also you can switch your entire infrastrucutre to use "python3" without breaking anything. I don't say switching to Python 3 was to early or the worst thing in the world. I'm just not sure if changing the "python" symlink to "python3" was great.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

ElliotH 14y ago

It was confusing for a while and broke some stuff. I haven't personally experienced problems in a while though. Mistake? No. It fits in with Arch's personality and made sense. It'd have been a mistake for Ubuntu to do it at the same time ofc! I started to specify my python preference in my #! (ie #!/usr/bin/python3) in my own programs. If everyone did this the move would be much easier.

shock 14y ago
I recommend using #!/usr/bin/env python3 as the shebang for portability[1] reasons if you intend to distribute the programs. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebang_%28Unix%29#Portability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shebang_%28Unix%29#Portability
- ElliotH 14y ago
  Thanks. Shall switch to using that.

rizumu 14y ago

As a full time Arch user the change was a little annoying at first but now I am perfectly happy using Python3 as the default because all my Python shell scripts and system installed packages work under Python3. I can simply work in a Python2 virtualenv when I need python2.

alexchamberlain 14y ago
Agreed, I use virtualenv if I'm hacking up a website at home.
- smackay 14y ago
  mkvirtualenv <name> --python=pythonx.y --no-site-packages
  - obviouslygreen 14y ago
    As of version 1.7 (2011), --no-site-packages is default behavior. I still specify it every time anyway, but thought it'd be worth mentioning. :) The --python switch is really great, though, particularly now that 3 is getting distro traction and most of us who work in Python are likely maintaining a lot of 2.x projects. Thanks!

ARussell 14y ago

Yes, I use Arch, and I think it was a mistake. Symlinking python to python3 breaks the assumption of virtually every Python dev out there; if you maintain an Arch package that has Python components, you usually have to sed replace the python shebangs with python2. Totally goes against Arch's normal "keep it simple" philosophy.