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They are not emotional labels, they are simply facts. Government is by definition; Violent; the state claims a monopoly on violence and employs the use of vio

They are not emotional labels, they are simply facts. Government is by definition; Violent; the state claims a monopoly on violence and employs the use of violence when forcing compliance with its edicts. Parasitic; the state functions by siphoning productivity from a captive populace and channelling it into the activities of the state such as bureaucracy, war and the continued maintenance and expansion of the state and its power. In the absence of a productive body there can be no state as there is nothing for the state to parasite from. Extortionate; the state obtains money, property, or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion. Now you can deny these all you like, but the simple fact remains that all states share the above characteristics. It's not a matter of opinion or viewpoint, those are simple facts. Disagreeing with them does in fact make you ignorant to the reality of the situation as it stands regardless of how uncomfortable that might make you feel.

Nursie 14y ago
If you consider government to be formed of the people, rather than an external entity, then your view of these things changes. We, the people, reserve the use of violence to those we collectively appoint to help run our society. This is necessary in order to protect the rights we grant ourselves. How would you propose to protect what you see as your property rights without violence? Oh that's right, it's only violence when other people do it, not when you do it. We, the people, impose taxes (extortion! LOL) in order to provide collective services we all rely on. And I disagree both that democratic government is parasitic or that expansion of the state and state power are necessarily the aims of all democratic governments. So I absolutely can and do disagree that all states have those characteristics, that your ideal stateless existence is free of them or that all of these things are necessarily negative. Sorry. It really is a matter of opinion and viewpoint.
- etherael 14y ago
  "Sure he's a tyrant, but he's our tyrant" This is exactly why I look forward to the rise of cryptocurrencies; protection from people like you.
  - Nursie 14y ago
    democracy != tyranny in my book. Sorry. It's far from perfect, but it's better than any other system I can think of and it's sure as hell better than a libertarian free-for-all which (IMHO) would devolve into feudalism and indentured servitude in no time. Difference of opinion again you see. --edit-- and I hope you enjoy your crypto-currencies. I also like them, I love crypto and am often amazed at what can be done with it. I just don't think that some of the features of BTC (particularly the fixed supply) are as awesome as some others seem to, nor do I find it important for currency to be free of central control, because I consider it a social utility rather than an absolute possession.
    - etherael 14y ago
      Tyranny vs democracy wasn't my point, my point was that instead of accepting the negatives in the system, you rationalise them away by saying it's okay when it's your team behaving this way. History has a way of making this habit look foolish in the long run. If crypto currencies prevail, we will see if your fears or my hopes end up justified. I am just happy it's finally possible.
      - Nursie 14y ago
        Again, I don't think these characteristics you list are unquestionably present or that they are unquestionably absolute negatives. From my perspective you use emotionally loaded language to try and paint a picture that fits in with your worldview. It's not 'my team vs your team'. It's that I genuinely don't see cooperative government or managed currencies as evil (quite the opposite), and you do.
        BrokenPipe 14y ago
        I don't this his language was emotional at all. I don't want my money to be spent in certain ways. I like voluntarism and of course I would try to improve the situation around my area instead of financing war, prisons and luxury for the corrupted. Things are not going ok.

Nursie 14y ago

If you consider government to be formed of the people, rather than an external entity, then your view of these things changes. We, the people, reserve the use of violence to those we collectively appoint to help run our society. This is necessary in order to protect the rights we grant ourselves. How would you propose to protect what you see as your property rights without violence? Oh that's right, it's only violence when other people do it, not when you do it. We, the people, impose taxes (extortion! LOL) in order to provide collective services we all rely on. And I disagree both that democratic government is parasitic or that expansion of the state and state power are necessarily the aims of all democratic governments. So I absolutely can and do disagree that all states have those characteristics, that your ideal stateless existence is free of them or that all of these things are necessarily negative. Sorry. It really is a matter of opinion and viewpoint.

etherael 14y ago
"Sure he's a tyrant, but he's our tyrant" This is exactly why I look forward to the rise of cryptocurrencies; protection from people like you.
- Nursie 14y ago
  democracy != tyranny in my book. Sorry. It's far from perfect, but it's better than any other system I can think of and it's sure as hell better than a libertarian free-for-all which (IMHO) would devolve into feudalism and indentured servitude in no time. Difference of opinion again you see. --edit-- and I hope you enjoy your crypto-currencies. I also like them, I love crypto and am often amazed at what can be done with it. I just don't think that some of the features of BTC (particularly the fixed supply) are as awesome as some others seem to, nor do I find it important for currency to be free of central control, because I consider it a social utility rather than an absolute possession.
  - etherael 14y ago
    Tyranny vs democracy wasn't my point, my point was that instead of accepting the negatives in the system, you rationalise them away by saying it's okay when it's your team behaving this way. History has a way of making this habit look foolish in the long run. If crypto currencies prevail, we will see if your fears or my hopes end up justified. I am just happy it's finally possible.
    - Nursie 14y ago
      Again, I don't think these characteristics you list are unquestionably present or that they are unquestionably absolute negatives. From my perspective you use emotionally loaded language to try and paint a picture that fits in with your worldview. It's not 'my team vs your team'. It's that I genuinely don't see cooperative government or managed currencies as evil (quite the opposite), and you do.
      - BrokenPipe 14y ago
        I don't this his language was emotional at all. I don't want my money to be spent in certain ways. I like voluntarism and of course I would try to improve the situation around my area instead of financing war, prisons and luxury for the corrupted. Things are not going ok.