5 ms·

Hey Startups, I’m calling bullshit. You don’t understand sales

40 points by nreece 14y ago

grinnick 14y ago
I really like the way he adds up the current value of the prospects in his funnel. I think it's a really great way to keep track of how much value each activity you could be doing right now will create so that you can more easily decide what to do next.
ValentineC 14y ago
Google Cache version (in case anyone else isn't able to access the site): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.shoestring.com.au%2F2013%2F01%2Fhey-startups-im-calling-bullshit-you-dont-understand-sales%2F http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%...
redguava 14y ago
It turns out that understanding how to make a website handle an influx of visitors is also important.
- anigbrowl 14y ago
  XD Still, once you get past the snarky opener there's a lot of good advice in this one.
  - mattmanser 14y ago
    No, there's not. It's b2b specific and all it talks about is pipelines. It's got nothing to do with startups. Bad title, bad article, bad server.
    - pytrin 14y ago
      You never heard of B2B startups? I'm a founder in one, and I found the article very relevant.
    - craigvn 14y ago
      So what your saying is, "we're startups, we don't do sales, we get investment". Well maybe some people are interested in a profitable business. And anyone who has done any sales would be able to adapt this guys advice to any startup, not just B2B.
      - qznc 14y ago
        Is angel/VC money that much different than the B2B process described in the article? This pipeline scheme could be translated quite directly.
    - smoyer 14y ago
      Pipelines have everything to do with a start-up ... I'm assuming you analyze how many people move from each step in your pipeline to the next? And you are A/B testing ways to improve the conversion of each step right? Reference: http://www.kalzumeus.com http://www.kalzumeus.com
nubela 14y ago
As a programmer doing sales, this is really informative albeit abit short. Does anyone have a good book to recommend on sales?
- Hates_ 14y ago
  It depends on which part of sales you want to focus on. I've yet to find a good book which covers the discipline as a whole. Many seem to either focus on the psychology, prospecting or just closing of sales. I'm part way through "New Sales. Simplified" which seems heavily based on "prospecting" which a lot of books seem to neglect. I've also got Dan Pink's "To Sell is Human" lined up next which is more about the psychological aspects. Many of the classic sales books by Zig Ziglar or Brian Tracy seem, IMO, to be more closing focused.
  - coopdog 14y ago
    I haven't finished it but "Secrets of Master Closer" seems good and covers the whole of sales, encouraging the reader to learn sales from first principles and then apply it in their own domain.
    - apapli 14y ago
      Another one that is excellent is called "the challenger sale". Here it is on amazon, I bought the audible version. http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Sale-Customer-Conversation/dp/1591844355/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365156364&sr=8-1&keywords=the+challenger+sale http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Sale-Customer-Conversat... A further one to look at is the maverick selling method. Corny name but good content: http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Selling-Method-Simplifying-Complex/dp/1441503501/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365156483&sr=1-1&keywords=maverick+selling+method http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Selling-Method-Simplifying-Co...
- codva 14y ago
  If you are selling something complex, enterprise software, software development, etc. you can not go wrong with Spin Selling and its companion book, Major Account Selling.
jvanderwal 14y ago
He's right.. even seasoned sales people don't understand their own pipelines a lot of the time. Try coming into a sales-person oriented company with the job of building a marketing/lead gen system for them, and then introducing them to their first CRM (previously saving all their data in personal Excel spreadsheets). Then convincing them of the value of a marketing program to drive them leads, and how giving me their sales data actually helps them in the long run... It's a common problem in a number of corporations. There's a funnel to the pipeline and sales people often just focus on chasing their one or two current hot leads.
sujeetsr 14y ago
"2 x $30,000 sales sitting at a probability of 10% to close, 1 x $500 sale sitting at a probability of 75% to close", and so on. How does one estimate these probabilities?
obviouslygreen 14y ago
This is something any perceptive founder will pick up on very quickly (if they weren't aware of it, as I wasn't, before their first project). However, in my experience, learning to do it yourself is not an efficient or effective solution. You may have no other option at the beginning, but finding someone who actually does this sort of thing for a living is vastly easier (which is not to say it's simple). There are challenges to this as well, including how to afford them, how to pay them, and how to engage them, but that still costs less time than attempting to learn a trade that's based very heavily on things technical just don't usually do much, and the results are far better: If you think you'd make a fine salesperson, despite never having worked extensively in sales, you are almost certainly wrong.

40 points by nreece 14y ago

I really like the way he adds up the current value of the prospects in his funnel. I think it's a really great way to keep track of how much value each activity you could be doing right now will create so that you can more easily decide what to do next.

ValentineC 14y ago

Google Cache version (in case anyone else isn't able to access the site): http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.shoestring.com.au%2F2013%2F01%2Fhey-startups-im-calling-bullshit-you-dont-understand-sales%2F http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%...

redguava 14y ago

It turns out that understanding how to make a website handle an influx of visitors is also important.

anigbrowl 14y ago
XD Still, once you get past the snarky opener there's a lot of good advice in this one.
- mattmanser 14y ago
  No, there's not. It's b2b specific and all it talks about is pipelines. It's got nothing to do with startups. Bad title, bad article, bad server.
  - pytrin 14y ago
    You never heard of B2B startups? I'm a founder in one, and I found the article very relevant.
  - craigvn 14y ago
    So what your saying is, "we're startups, we don't do sales, we get investment". Well maybe some people are interested in a profitable business. And anyone who has done any sales would be able to adapt this guys advice to any startup, not just B2B.
    - qznc 14y ago
      Is angel/VC money that much different than the B2B process described in the article? This pipeline scheme could be translated quite directly.
  - smoyer 14y ago
    Pipelines have everything to do with a start-up ... I'm assuming you analyze how many people move from each step in your pipeline to the next? And you are A/B testing ways to improve the conversion of each step right? Reference: http://www.kalzumeus.com http://www.kalzumeus.com

nubela 14y ago

As a programmer doing sales, this is really informative albeit abit short. Does anyone have a good book to recommend on sales?

Hates_ 14y ago
It depends on which part of sales you want to focus on. I've yet to find a good book which covers the discipline as a whole. Many seem to either focus on the psychology, prospecting or just closing of sales. I'm part way through "New Sales. Simplified" which seems heavily based on "prospecting" which a lot of books seem to neglect. I've also got Dan Pink's "To Sell is Human" lined up next which is more about the psychological aspects. Many of the classic sales books by Zig Ziglar or Brian Tracy seem, IMO, to be more closing focused.
- coopdog 14y ago
  I haven't finished it but "Secrets of Master Closer" seems good and covers the whole of sales, encouraging the reader to learn sales from first principles and then apply it in their own domain.
  - apapli 14y ago
    Another one that is excellent is called "the challenger sale". Here it is on amazon, I bought the audible version. http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Sale-Customer-Conversation/dp/1591844355/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1365156364&sr=8-1&keywords=the+challenger+sale http://www.amazon.com/The-Challenger-Sale-Customer-Conversat... A further one to look at is the maverick selling method. Corny name but good content: http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Selling-Method-Simplifying-Complex/dp/1441503501/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1365156483&sr=1-1&keywords=maverick+selling+method http://www.amazon.com/Maverick-Selling-Method-Simplifying-Co...
codva 14y ago
If you are selling something complex, enterprise software, software development, etc. you can not go wrong with Spin Selling and its companion book, Major Account Selling.

jvanderwal 14y ago

He's right.. even seasoned sales people don't understand their own pipelines a lot of the time. Try coming into a sales-person oriented company with the job of building a marketing/lead gen system for them, and then introducing them to their first CRM (previously saving all their data in personal Excel spreadsheets). Then convincing them of the value of a marketing program to drive them leads, and how giving me their sales data actually helps them in the long run... It's a common problem in a number of corporations. There's a funnel to the pipeline and sales people often just focus on chasing their one or two current hot leads.

sujeetsr 14y ago

"2 x $30,000 sales sitting at a probability of 10% to close, 1 x $500 sale sitting at a probability of 75% to close", and so on. How does one estimate these probabilities?

obviouslygreen 14y ago

This is something any perceptive founder will pick up on very quickly (if they weren't aware of it, as I wasn't, before their first project). However, in my experience, learning to do it yourself is not an efficient or effective solution. You may have no other option at the beginning, but finding someone who actually does this sort of thing for a living is vastly easier (which is not to say it's simple). There are challenges to this as well, including how to afford them, how to pay them, and how to engage them, but that still costs less time than attempting to learn a trade that's based very heavily on things technical just don't usually do much, and the results are far better: If you think you'd make a fine salesperson, despite never having worked extensively in sales, you are almost certainly wrong.