4 ms·

Exactly, this is "the money quote": "The scary part is that these would be bundled by OEM's and might be harder to stop and even uninstall".

by ramayac 14y ago

smokinjoe 14y ago
I don't see how an informed consumer can't avoid this. I really started to dislike OEM's and decided to go Nexus. The number of bundled apps that went dead (Blockbuster went bankrupt and yet I was stuck with that app) or unsupported just drove me away. I understand that now instead of worrying about unsupported apps you have to worry about what these apps track in the background, however there are a number of other phone options - why not just use another? The appeal of this Launcher is there, it seems like a fairly clean interface that is satisfying to use, but like Facebook.com, if you don't feel comfortable using it, then you don't have to.
- mattmaroon 14y ago
  Not to mention most OEMs put a custom launcher of some sort on their Android devices already and pretty much always have. I don't see Facebook as being any more odious than Samsung just because they know I like The Black Keys and Mad Men too. My phone's manufacturer could collect much more personal information about me than Facebook does. For all I know they're recording all my calls and uploaded them somewhere. Really it's just so easy in the tech blog world to get page views by decrying whatever Facebook does as an invasion of privacy and that's what Om is doing. He should be ashamed for writing such a brainless piece of linkbait.
  - ashleyblackmore 14y ago
    Once again, "Black Keys and Mad Men" is different to "your personal history, your friends, what you look like, what your friends look like, what you like, what your friends like, who you talk to, what you talk about, what your friends talk about, which services you subscribe to, where you went to school, where you worked, when you worked, when you graduated, when you began a relationship, when you ended a relationship, your sexual preferences..." Facebook doesn't need any apologists, least of all from the HN community. Whether the article is linkbait or not, Facebook does need constant critique. Om Malik points out that Facebook Home means a new kind of persistent data-gathering wrapped in a trendy (?) skin that most facebook users will want to try out. It is bad enough that a billion people blithely use their web and phone apps without them having something that sinks its hooks in deeper
    - mattmaroon 14y ago
      This wasn't a useful critique though, it was idiotic scaremongering. If the article gave some useful reasons why you maybe shouldn't install this (they can track your movements and sell ads to people near you in real time) that'd be one thing. But it was idiocy like "they'll see what apps you use and clone them!" or gibberish like "they can access the hardware!" It's pure linkbait and Om should be ashamed for writing something so poor.
    - smokinjoe 14y ago
      Many of those are only known by Facebook if you explicitly fill out the information - and while I hate to be cynical, if folks who use Facebook at this point in time don't realize that this data is collected then shame on them. Facebook is consistently under a giant lens and receives critiques with every step it takes. Instead of actually taking some rational side to the argument, Om simply scaremongers.
- trhtrsh 14y ago
  Nexus has over a dozen force-installed apps (mostly the Play suite these days, but that keeps growing all the time -- a dedicated Magazine store, WTF?)
- philsnow 14y ago
  > I don't see how an informed consumer can't avoid this. "Informed consumers" make up (at a guess) less than 5% of the overall smartphone market, for some value of being informed about online privacy. Privacy advocates should raise hell about the potential issues of a facebook-image smartphone now if there's any chance of increasing awareness of the issues outside of "privacy enthusiast" circles.
  - smokinjoe 14y ago
    > "Informed consumers" make up (at a guess) less than 5% of the overall smartphone market, for some value of being informed about online privacy. This 'Online Privacy' I've seen thrown around is such a general term that encapsulates both explicit and anonymous data. Facebook isn't outing people or sharing your phone number with anyone who asks for it. Much of what they do with the data is provide contextual ads or information to a user that helps improve their lives as well. Until people realize this separation, there is too much of a witch hunt in the name of 'online privacy.'
- tripzilch 14y ago
  > I don't see how an informed consumer can't avoid this. So it's fine because less than 10% of all people can avoid it? Take a step out of your tech-bubble for a moment (or maybe a bit longer, it's really educational). A side-related example. Most people that aren't really into tech, as well as most people outside the age range of, say, 14-40, are completely unable to avoid accidentally installing browser toolbars. These are not dumb people. They know what toolbars are, how they get on their system, and what to look out for. Still, it happens. Because, oops. But they are unable to get rid of them, because even if they knew where to look, they wouldn't know which of the installed programs would be safe to remove. That's just an example, because it's just something in particular I see all the time, right now. Shit that happens to otherwise really clever and smart people. And it's even worse when I see it happen to more vulnerable parts of the population. This is the sort of thing that inspires whitehat hackers to do what they do. I recall that RSnake of the discontinued ha.ckers.org weblog, spoke about how this motivated him in the fight against XSS and other browser-based attacks, even if it was "just" about really silly misleading "social engineering trick" type of attacks that a smart (tech-smart) person would never fall for, but your mother or grandmother might! So yeah, good for you. But really, this discussion isn't about you, do you really think the people in this thread are getting upset because they fear they themselves cannot avoid this? No, this bothers me because my mom is on Facebook and uses it on her mobile phone, my less-technical friends are on Facebook, the children that I teach and their definitely-not-technical parents are on Facebook!
  - smokinjoe 14y ago
    I see your point. I guess I failed to go into the fact my various purchasing practices were just how I was raised. My father, mother and grandmother would do the same thing as I would. Of course, you're still right in a larger sense: that doesn't help those that weren't raised by my parents. This is a perfect opportunity for consumer advocate groups to step in and inform people. I don't see how each of us being critical of such a move does anything to help those that would otherwise not have the education about potential privacy issues. I do what I can when friends and family ask me for purchasing advice and I take it very seriously. I keep myself informed in a way that others may not. I don't want to say I'm changing the world, but really, technology is going to progress, this Launcher is extremely unique and could see quite a few copy cats going the same route (most likely without the support of a major hardware manufacturer) - this is an extremely good potential teaching moment for those that would otherwise not know. I'm just doing what I can to help those that ask for it. We can't trust the sales people because frankly, they seem less informed than even the average consumer - they just want to sell you the latest phone and renew that 2-year contract. But there are quite a few organizations out there that could probably use more support and increase the proper awareness. I'm just always of the school that the responsibility is ultimately on the individual, so anything to help that individual make the best and most educated decision is something I think will always lead towards the best results. > So yeah, good for you. But really, this discussion isn't about you, do you really think the people in this thread are getting upset because they fear they themselves cannot avoid this? No, this bothers me because my mom is on Facebook and uses it on her mobile phone, my less-technical friends are on Facebook, the children that I teach and their definitely-not-technical parents are on Facebook! Not sure why you need to take this sort of tone, and I also don't see what's inherently wrong with people using Facebook in the first place. If people want quicker access to an App they use all the time in a pretty slick looking interface then then let them consume. Do your part and answer any potential questions they may have and perhaps even interject some technical opinion (without going over the line into lecturing, of course) to help raise their awareness.

Exactly, this is "the money quote": "The scary part is that these would be bundled by OEM's and might be harder to stop and even uninstall".

by ramayac 14y ago

Exactly, this is "the money quote": "The scary part is that these would be bundled by OEM's and might be harder to stop and even uninstall".

smokinjoe 14y ago

I don't see how an informed consumer can't avoid this. I really started to dislike OEM's and decided to go Nexus. The number of bundled apps that went dead (Blockbuster went bankrupt and yet I was stuck with that app) or unsupported just drove me away. I understand that now instead of worrying about unsupported apps you have to worry about what these apps track in the background, however there are a number of other phone options - why not just use another? The appeal of this Launcher is there, it seems like a fairly clean interface that is satisfying to use, but like Facebook.com, if you don't feel comfortable using it, then you don't have to.

mattmaroon 14y ago
Not to mention most OEMs put a custom launcher of some sort on their Android devices already and pretty much always have. I don't see Facebook as being any more odious than Samsung just because they know I like The Black Keys and Mad Men too. My phone's manufacturer could collect much more personal information about me than Facebook does. For all I know they're recording all my calls and uploaded them somewhere. Really it's just so easy in the tech blog world to get page views by decrying whatever Facebook does as an invasion of privacy and that's what Om is doing. He should be ashamed for writing such a brainless piece of linkbait.
- ashleyblackmore 14y ago
  Once again, "Black Keys and Mad Men" is different to "your personal history, your friends, what you look like, what your friends look like, what you like, what your friends like, who you talk to, what you talk about, what your friends talk about, which services you subscribe to, where you went to school, where you worked, when you worked, when you graduated, when you began a relationship, when you ended a relationship, your sexual preferences..." Facebook doesn't need any apologists, least of all from the HN community. Whether the article is linkbait or not, Facebook does need constant critique. Om Malik points out that Facebook Home means a new kind of persistent data-gathering wrapped in a trendy (?) skin that most facebook users will want to try out. It is bad enough that a billion people blithely use their web and phone apps without them having something that sinks its hooks in deeper
  - mattmaroon 14y ago
    This wasn't a useful critique though, it was idiotic scaremongering. If the article gave some useful reasons why you maybe shouldn't install this (they can track your movements and sell ads to people near you in real time) that'd be one thing. But it was idiocy like "they'll see what apps you use and clone them!" or gibberish like "they can access the hardware!" It's pure linkbait and Om should be ashamed for writing something so poor.
  - smokinjoe 14y ago
    Many of those are only known by Facebook if you explicitly fill out the information - and while I hate to be cynical, if folks who use Facebook at this point in time don't realize that this data is collected then shame on them. Facebook is consistently under a giant lens and receives critiques with every step it takes. Instead of actually taking some rational side to the argument, Om simply scaremongers.
trhtrsh 14y ago
Nexus has over a dozen force-installed apps (mostly the Play suite these days, but that keeps growing all the time -- a dedicated Magazine store, WTF?)
philsnow 14y ago
> I don't see how an informed consumer can't avoid this. "Informed consumers" make up (at a guess) less than 5% of the overall smartphone market, for some value of being informed about online privacy. Privacy advocates should raise hell about the potential issues of a facebook-image smartphone now if there's any chance of increasing awareness of the issues outside of "privacy enthusiast" circles.
- smokinjoe 14y ago
  > "Informed consumers" make up (at a guess) less than 5% of the overall smartphone market, for some value of being informed about online privacy. This 'Online Privacy' I've seen thrown around is such a general term that encapsulates both explicit and anonymous data. Facebook isn't outing people or sharing your phone number with anyone who asks for it. Much of what they do with the data is provide contextual ads or information to a user that helps improve their lives as well. Until people realize this separation, there is too much of a witch hunt in the name of 'online privacy.'
tripzilch 14y ago
> I don't see how an informed consumer can't avoid this. So it's fine because less than 10% of all people can avoid it? Take a step out of your tech-bubble for a moment (or maybe a bit longer, it's really educational). A side-related example. Most people that aren't really into tech, as well as most people outside the age range of, say, 14-40, are completely unable to avoid accidentally installing browser toolbars. These are not dumb people. They know what toolbars are, how they get on their system, and what to look out for. Still, it happens. Because, oops. But they are unable to get rid of them, because even if they knew where to look, they wouldn't know which of the installed programs would be safe to remove. That's just an example, because it's just something in particular I see all the time, right now. Shit that happens to otherwise really clever and smart people. And it's even worse when I see it happen to more vulnerable parts of the population. This is the sort of thing that inspires whitehat hackers to do what they do. I recall that RSnake of the discontinued ha.ckers.org weblog, spoke about how this motivated him in the fight against XSS and other browser-based attacks, even if it was "just" about really silly misleading "social engineering trick" type of attacks that a smart (tech-smart) person would never fall for, but your mother or grandmother might! So yeah, good for you. But really, this discussion isn't about you, do you really think the people in this thread are getting upset because they fear they themselves cannot avoid this? No, this bothers me because my mom is on Facebook and uses it on her mobile phone, my less-technical friends are on Facebook, the children that I teach and their definitely-not-technical parents are on Facebook!
- smokinjoe 14y ago
  I see your point. I guess I failed to go into the fact my various purchasing practices were just how I was raised. My father, mother and grandmother would do the same thing as I would. Of course, you're still right in a larger sense: that doesn't help those that weren't raised by my parents. This is a perfect opportunity for consumer advocate groups to step in and inform people. I don't see how each of us being critical of such a move does anything to help those that would otherwise not have the education about potential privacy issues. I do what I can when friends and family ask me for purchasing advice and I take it very seriously. I keep myself informed in a way that others may not. I don't want to say I'm changing the world, but really, technology is going to progress, this Launcher is extremely unique and could see quite a few copy cats going the same route (most likely without the support of a major hardware manufacturer) - this is an extremely good potential teaching moment for those that would otherwise not know. I'm just doing what I can to help those that ask for it. We can't trust the sales people because frankly, they seem less informed than even the average consumer - they just want to sell you the latest phone and renew that 2-year contract. But there are quite a few organizations out there that could probably use more support and increase the proper awareness. I'm just always of the school that the responsibility is ultimately on the individual, so anything to help that individual make the best and most educated decision is something I think will always lead towards the best results. > So yeah, good for you. But really, this discussion isn't about you, do you really think the people in this thread are getting upset because they fear they themselves cannot avoid this? No, this bothers me because my mom is on Facebook and uses it on her mobile phone, my less-technical friends are on Facebook, the children that I teach and their definitely-not-technical parents are on Facebook! Not sure why you need to take this sort of tone, and I also don't see what's inherently wrong with people using Facebook in the first place. If people want quicker access to an App they use all the time in a pretty slick looking interface then then let them consume. Do your part and answer any potential questions they may have and perhaps even interject some technical opinion (without going over the line into lecturing, of course) to help raise their awareness.