29 ms·

I don't think we should be too surprised with how FB will use the new data. I'm just wondering who Facebook is going to share this data with. I know a guy who

by badgar 14y ago

I don't think we should be too surprised with how FB will use the new data. I'm just wondering who Facebook is going to share this data with. I know a guy who works at one of Facebook's "partner companies" that pays gobs for FB user data. This partner company gets (as far as they can tell) fully-populated user data in Facebook's user dumps - way, way more information than they need or ask for. So the partner company puts this data through arduous preprocessing steps to filter out most of the details before any user data hits real systems. They're scared of the legal liability of holding onto all the personal details they receive don't need but Facebook shares anyway because Facebook genuinely doesn't care as long as they're monetizing. So yeah, I'm scared of where this new data is going to go. Not what FB uses it for themselves.

monkeynotes 14y ago
I deleted my FB account when they IPO'd as I could then plainly see that the only worth in the company was user data and it would certainly be monetised as much as possible. But 'deleting' an account probably doesn't do much more than remove the data from the immediate web services. My data has probably been sold to multiple 3rd parties by now.
- badgar 14y ago
  > But 'deleting' an account probably doesn't do much more than remove the data from the immediate web services. If you think they delete the data at all from anywhere you're out of your mind. Records are tombstoned, moved to cold(er) storage for efficiency and then not displayed. Certainly not deleted.
- HarrisonFisk 14y ago
  When you delete your account, the data is actually removed. As part of the recent privacy audit, the Irish DPC reviewed the account deletion framework and verified that it does indeed work: http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/21-09-12--Facebook-Ireland-Audit-Review-Report/1232.htm http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/21-09-12--Facebook-Ireland... (section 2.10 - page 41)
jetru 14y ago
> They're scared of the legal liability of holding onto all the personal details they receive don't need but Facebook shares anyway because Facebook genuinely doesn't care as long as they're monetizing. I find it odd that Facebook isn't scared of the same legal liability. Infact, they should be more scared. I don't see any reason why Facebook would give away more information than they need to. They have the skill and resources to filter data themselves. I highly doubt that they would throw away personal and sensitive to other companies.
- badgar 14y ago
  > I find it odd that Facebook isn't scared of the same legal liability. Infact, they should be more scared. You don't understand how partnerships work in this case. Facebook is paid to provide data according to a contract between the two companies. That's it. They have many, many such contracts to fulfill with many partners. These contracts don't say "we provide exactly the data you ask for, no more, no less" because that is a lot, lot more work and at the end of the day the contracts still get signed and FB still gets paid. A lot. Where do you see legal liability for FB so far? Their terms of service fully permit this data sharing, and the contracts are just between FB and partner companies. Meanwhile, the partner companies use the shared data to produce value-added products which they provide to their customers under existing contracts and policies. They can't violate their customer's privacy or rights under any of the existing such policies, which are not identical to FB's. In fact, depending on the industry of the partner company, these policies can be extremely different. It is up to the partner company - not Facebook - to comply with the partner company's contracts/policies. > I don't see any reason why Facebook would give away more information than they need to. Facebook doesn't see any reason why they should waste time withholding more data than they need to. They still get paid the same amount, and the partner companies just filter out what they don't want. What's the point? There isn't even a big long-term concern here for Facebook, since extra social data isn't exactly very useful years later. > They have the skill and resources to filter data themselves. You say that, but every large technology company has to prioritize what they use engineering manpower for. Not everything a company can do or wants to do ends up getting done. For example, you might say "Facebook has the skill and resources to delete data from their CDN. I highly doubt they would throw away money on byte stored in Akamai" and yet they didn't do so for years and probably still don't. And that's a far easier problem with real measurable costs. Compare that to filtering the same enormous data set differently for each partner company when there's no compelling business reason to do so. The contracts are still going to be signed and Facebook will still get paid. Why should anyone care? > I highly doubt that they would throw away personal and sensitive to other companies. This is something FB is doing and have been doing for years. So your doubts are baseless.
duck 14y ago
I'm just wondering who Facebook is going to share this data with. I think you answered your own question with: pays gobs
zdrtx 14y ago
Facebook doesn't sell user data.
- badgar 14y ago
  Yes, yes it does. You'll need to refine your brief assertion to make it correct. It's all anonymized of course, but Facebook absolutely has many commercial agreements to share its user data with partner companies. A common part of these agreements, for example, is for the partner companies to also share their user data with Facebook.
  - kmavm 14y ago
    I've worked at Facebook for four years. No, no we don't, no matter what the "guy you know" says. Harrison already provided you with our very strongly worded, official claims to that effect. Since you're the one claiming otherwise, how about an actual, verifiable example? "Company X paid Facebook $Y for user data Z" doesn't sound like an unreasonably specific request.
    - badgar 14y ago
      I see. Money must not be explicitly trading hands in these commercial data-sharing agreements, because you're very serious about that one detail (and nothing else). I obviously don't have insight into these commercial data-sharing contracts - actually, you do. So I'll assume I'm wrong about dollars being exchanged directly. But I'm not wrong that data is shared liberally and unnecessarily in these data-sharing agreements, which was actually the point. And I'm not wrong that those agreements are commercial in nature with Facebook receiving something in return. Or are you saying Facebook's data-sharing agreement system is a giant charity program. So I'm still okay with calling commercial data-sharing agreements "selling user data."
HarrisonFisk 14y ago
Facebook does not sell user data regardless of what you may have heard. See: https://www.facebook.com/help/152637448140583/ https://www.facebook.com/help/152637448140583/

by badgar 14y ago

monkeynotes 14y ago

I deleted my FB account when they IPO'd as I could then plainly see that the only worth in the company was user data and it would certainly be monetised as much as possible. But 'deleting' an account probably doesn't do much more than remove the data from the immediate web services. My data has probably been sold to multiple 3rd parties by now.

badgar 14y ago
> But 'deleting' an account probably doesn't do much more than remove the data from the immediate web services. If you think they delete the data at all from anywhere you're out of your mind. Records are tombstoned, moved to cold(er) storage for efficiency and then not displayed. Certainly not deleted.
HarrisonFisk 14y ago
When you delete your account, the data is actually removed. As part of the recent privacy audit, the Irish DPC reviewed the account deletion framework and verified that it does indeed work: http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/21-09-12--Facebook-Ireland-Audit-Review-Report/1232.htm http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/21-09-12--Facebook-Ireland... (section 2.10 - page 41)

jetru 14y ago

> They're scared of the legal liability of holding onto all the personal details they receive don't need but Facebook shares anyway because Facebook genuinely doesn't care as long as they're monetizing. I find it odd that Facebook isn't scared of the same legal liability. Infact, they should be more scared. I don't see any reason why Facebook would give away more information than they need to. They have the skill and resources to filter data themselves. I highly doubt that they would throw away personal and sensitive to other companies.

badgar 14y ago
> I find it odd that Facebook isn't scared of the same legal liability. Infact, they should be more scared. You don't understand how partnerships work in this case. Facebook is paid to provide data according to a contract between the two companies. That's it. They have many, many such contracts to fulfill with many partners. These contracts don't say "we provide exactly the data you ask for, no more, no less" because that is a lot, lot more work and at the end of the day the contracts still get signed and FB still gets paid. A lot. Where do you see legal liability for FB so far? Their terms of service fully permit this data sharing, and the contracts are just between FB and partner companies. Meanwhile, the partner companies use the shared data to produce value-added products which they provide to their customers under existing contracts and policies. They can't violate their customer's privacy or rights under any of the existing such policies, which are not identical to FB's. In fact, depending on the industry of the partner company, these policies can be extremely different. It is up to the partner company - not Facebook - to comply with the partner company's contracts/policies. > I don't see any reason why Facebook would give away more information than they need to. Facebook doesn't see any reason why they should waste time withholding more data than they need to. They still get paid the same amount, and the partner companies just filter out what they don't want. What's the point? There isn't even a big long-term concern here for Facebook, since extra social data isn't exactly very useful years later. > They have the skill and resources to filter data themselves. You say that, but every large technology company has to prioritize what they use engineering manpower for. Not everything a company can do or wants to do ends up getting done. For example, you might say "Facebook has the skill and resources to delete data from their CDN. I highly doubt they would throw away money on byte stored in Akamai" and yet they didn't do so for years and probably still don't. And that's a far easier problem with real measurable costs. Compare that to filtering the same enormous data set differently for each partner company when there's no compelling business reason to do so. The contracts are still going to be signed and Facebook will still get paid. Why should anyone care? > I highly doubt that they would throw away personal and sensitive to other companies. This is something FB is doing and have been doing for years. So your doubts are baseless.

duck 14y ago

I'm just wondering who Facebook is going to share this data with. I think you answered your own question with: pays gobs

zdrtx 14y ago

Facebook doesn't sell user data.

badgar 14y ago
Yes, yes it does. You'll need to refine your brief assertion to make it correct. It's all anonymized of course, but Facebook absolutely has many commercial agreements to share its user data with partner companies. A common part of these agreements, for example, is for the partner companies to also share their user data with Facebook.
- kmavm 14y ago
  I've worked at Facebook for four years. No, no we don't, no matter what the "guy you know" says. Harrison already provided you with our very strongly worded, official claims to that effect. Since you're the one claiming otherwise, how about an actual, verifiable example? "Company X paid Facebook $Y for user data Z" doesn't sound like an unreasonably specific request.
  - badgar 14y ago
    I see. Money must not be explicitly trading hands in these commercial data-sharing agreements, because you're very serious about that one detail (and nothing else). I obviously don't have insight into these commercial data-sharing contracts - actually, you do. So I'll assume I'm wrong about dollars being exchanged directly. But I'm not wrong that data is shared liberally and unnecessarily in these data-sharing agreements, which was actually the point. And I'm not wrong that those agreements are commercial in nature with Facebook receiving something in return. Or are you saying Facebook's data-sharing agreement system is a giant charity program. So I'm still okay with calling commercial data-sharing agreements "selling user data."

HarrisonFisk 14y ago

Facebook does not sell user data regardless of what you may have heard. See: https://www.facebook.com/help/152637448140583/ https://www.facebook.com/help/152637448140583/