5 ms·

I'm a middle class guy but for whatever reasons for the past 20 years or so I've lived largely in poorer communities. It's not some charity thing either. I ju

I'm a middle class guy but for whatever reasons for the past 20 years or so I've lived largely in poorer communities. It's not some charity thing either. I just like to save money. And this dude is right, drug dealers don't make much money. They really lack options, like most people in their situation of being poor, minority, and young. The jobs like mowing lawns barely exist (often because there aren't many lawns). They sell drugs mainly because wealthier people are willing to drive into the area to buy drugs. The liquor stores even sell things like nickel bags and smoking gear. Gangs offer credit. The product kind of sells itself, the same way that laptops used to sell themselves, or that big screen tvs used to. When I looked like a dirtbag, people always asked me where to buy drugs. Middle class college kids were the ones asking. I usually didn't know. (I wish people would come up to me and ask to write little utilities for Unix.) One other thing I notice, too - there's just a ton of stress, and nothing harms learning like stress. I once shared an office in a gangland type area, and it was impossible to work at night because the gunfire and helicopters really stopped any flow of ideas.

precisioncoder 14y ago
The other problem that I've noticed is a lack of emphasis on saving. I lived in a lot of poor neighborhoods as well and worked a lot of entry level jobs. I remember working at a catering job making $9/hour that was abusing the catering regulations to get the workers to work 60-70 hour weeks without overtime pay. (It was a shady but legal loophole) I loved it because I had just come out of a bad situation and had some debt to pay off. I worked there for about 9 months, saving $4000 which paid off all my credit cards and a loan I had taken to get myself out of a bad situation. Then I moved on. I knew a lot of people who had been there for years, working that punishing schedule and had saved nothing, in fact they were shocked that you could save money. They spent most of it on clothes, alchohol, and drugs. I feel like the main thing that is lacking in schools is a realistic money management course that teaches people how to manage their expenses and savings.
- orangethirty 14y ago
  Most people can't save. The poorer you are the more expensive things get. Food costs have doubled. So has fuel, which in turn increases utilities. They barely scrape by.
  - precisioncoder 14y ago
    It's circular. You drink because you're depressed because you're poor because you spend all your money on booze. Yes food is expensive, but you can buy a bag of rice and a bag of onions and a bag of potatoes, and eat decent meals of stir fried rice and onions, baked potatoes, onion soup, etc for far less than mcdonalds. Takes almost no time to prepare too. People just don't realize it. That's where targeted education would be really helpful.
    - wildgift 14y ago
      I don't think that's a fair characterization. Most of the teetotalers and very light drinkers I've met in my life are or were working class or poor people. I think middle class people drink more than poor people. If you go to a party with poor people, there's hardly any alcohol at all. When you go to a party with middle class people, there's a little keg of some craft brew and a few bottles of liquor. (In fact, I think the fact I don't drink has actually harmed my career, because I don't really socialize as much as I used to. My SO hates alcohol. I like it, but can't partake.) The main reason why poor people are poor is because they make like $8.50 an hour and no benefits. Also, grocery store stats refute your assertion about foods. The bag-it-yourself stores sell more per customer than the mainstream supermarkets.
      - precisioncoder 14y ago
        It may be different where you're from, but I'm from NS Canada in GDP/capita the second lowest in Canada with the lowest PEI. Alcohol aside, people spend their money on luxuries rather than saving it. Which is just fine as a personal choice, but when it's a societal trend that the lower class are going in to debt or not saving in order to buy luxuries I would say there are some gaps in education. I lived on minimum wage for years and saved large amounts in little time while watching people making more than me living paycheck to paycheck struggling simply because they didn't know how to manage their expenses.
- wildgift 14y ago
  Saving is usually motivated by having a need to save money. If you have some goals, you'll save for them. Sometimes, you need role models who show you how to save. I was fortunate and had one parent who was a great saver, and later in life, one friend who was even more into saving. Both people were poorer than I, so I know how to do it. (In fact, they are still poorer, but know how to save money. Saving isn't the path to wealth. It mainly gets you some financial breathing room, and the ability to take risks.)

precisioncoder 14y ago

The other problem that I've noticed is a lack of emphasis on saving. I lived in a lot of poor neighborhoods as well and worked a lot of entry level jobs. I remember working at a catering job making $9/hour that was abusing the catering regulations to get the workers to work 60-70 hour weeks without overtime pay. (It was a shady but legal loophole) I loved it because I had just come out of a bad situation and had some debt to pay off. I worked there for about 9 months, saving $4000 which paid off all my credit cards and a loan I had taken to get myself out of a bad situation. Then I moved on. I knew a lot of people who had been there for years, working that punishing schedule and had saved nothing, in fact they were shocked that you could save money. They spent most of it on clothes, alchohol, and drugs. I feel like the main thing that is lacking in schools is a realistic money management course that teaches people how to manage their expenses and savings.

orangethirty 14y ago
Most people can't save. The poorer you are the more expensive things get. Food costs have doubled. So has fuel, which in turn increases utilities. They barely scrape by.
- precisioncoder 14y ago
  It's circular. You drink because you're depressed because you're poor because you spend all your money on booze. Yes food is expensive, but you can buy a bag of rice and a bag of onions and a bag of potatoes, and eat decent meals of stir fried rice and onions, baked potatoes, onion soup, etc for far less than mcdonalds. Takes almost no time to prepare too. People just don't realize it. That's where targeted education would be really helpful.
  - wildgift 14y ago
    I don't think that's a fair characterization. Most of the teetotalers and very light drinkers I've met in my life are or were working class or poor people. I think middle class people drink more than poor people. If you go to a party with poor people, there's hardly any alcohol at all. When you go to a party with middle class people, there's a little keg of some craft brew and a few bottles of liquor. (In fact, I think the fact I don't drink has actually harmed my career, because I don't really socialize as much as I used to. My SO hates alcohol. I like it, but can't partake.) The main reason why poor people are poor is because they make like $8.50 an hour and no benefits. Also, grocery store stats refute your assertion about foods. The bag-it-yourself stores sell more per customer than the mainstream supermarkets.
    - precisioncoder 14y ago
      It may be different where you're from, but I'm from NS Canada in GDP/capita the second lowest in Canada with the lowest PEI. Alcohol aside, people spend their money on luxuries rather than saving it. Which is just fine as a personal choice, but when it's a societal trend that the lower class are going in to debt or not saving in order to buy luxuries I would say there are some gaps in education. I lived on minimum wage for years and saved large amounts in little time while watching people making more than me living paycheck to paycheck struggling simply because they didn't know how to manage their expenses.
wildgift 14y ago
Saving is usually motivated by having a need to save money. If you have some goals, you'll save for them. Sometimes, you need role models who show you how to save. I was fortunate and had one parent who was a great saver, and later in life, one friend who was even more into saving. Both people were poorer than I, so I know how to do it. (In fact, they are still poorer, but know how to save money. Saving isn't the path to wealth. It mainly gets you some financial breathing room, and the ability to take risks.)