7 ms·

They admitted (claimed?) they had a bug and apologized for the bug. They didn't acknowledge the real mistake: converting people from free to paid without their

by wilfra 14y ago

They admitted (claimed?) they had a bug and apologized for the bug. They didn't acknowledge the real mistake: converting people from free to paid without their explicit approval (not just emailing them altered terms). That needed to be opt-in, not opt-out. It appears as though they haven't even rectified that. It's still opt out. They're going to email 71 customers asking if they want a refund. What if they don't respond? No refund, right? What about the people who got the first email but didn't cancel, they still get charged, right? I would find it difficult to trust any company with my credit card info if I knew the only thing standing between me and new charges for things I don't want was reading every email they send me.

tptacek 14y ago
They acknowledged exactly that, reversed the charges, and offered a full refund. I am again left wondering what you actually expected them to do.
- gus_massa 14y ago
  I don't understand the situation of the other n-71 users. Instacart send an email to them, but apparently the users didn't have to confirm the upgrade. What happened with the mails that got lost, went to the spam folder, where ignored because it looks like standard press release, went to the secondary mail account?
  - calebio 14y ago
    There was a post by someone who seems to have worked there claiming the mistake was when they were querying for the users to send the email to. Basically 71 of us were not included in the results of that query so the email was never actually sent to us.
- wilfra 14y ago
  Read the post again. They did not reverse the charges. They gave 71 people the opportunity to claim a refund. What they should have done was automatically issued a refund to everybody they charged - not just the 71 who didn't receive the email - because they never should have charged anybody who didn't opt-in.
  - tptacek 14y ago
    Are we reading the same post? "First, we’re going to refund all delivery fees paid by the people affected by this bug."
    - wilfra 14y ago
      Instacart Express != Delivery Fees.
      - tptacek 14y ago
        "Receive a full refund of the Instacart Express subscription fee immediately"
        wilfra 14y ago
        They have an option to do that - but if they take no action, they wont receive a refund. And that only applies to the 71 users effected by the bug. The people who got the email but took no action evidently can't even claim a refund. Can you imagine the backlash if Apple started charging $99/year for iCloud and auto-billed everybody who didn't cancel the service?
        niggler 14y ago
        There's the other issue of the notice itself. If they decided in March to make the change, how much time did they give customers to decide? Given the timeline, it seems like it was "effective immediately" rather than giving proper ahead of time notice. Nonetheless, even if they did discuss refunding, the entire process seems shifty. Every service I use (I checked!) warns me five business days in advance by email that they are charging my card or sends a physical mail two weeks in advance. Instacart should be sending an email on each event with the delivery fee spelled out clearly.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - 14y ago
jusben1369 14y ago
You can't win for losing here. A lot of people just won't read your email period. So you can either cancel the accounts of your free users and have 50% of your customer base freak out because you cancelled their account (perhaps wiping history in the process they find important) or you can keep them all active and upgrade them.
- frogpelt 14y ago
  How about offering people the option to upgrade? If they decline or don't respond, they remain free users. If they accept, upgrade them. Am I missing something?
  - tptacek 14y ago
    "They remain free users"? That is an option with unlimited downside for Instacart.
    - Ilmesnkie_Jones 14y ago
      They could leave their accounts dormant until the users next signed in then ask them to either accept the charges or deactivate their account. That would be a lot more ethical than just going ahead and charging them and expecting them to opt out if they don't agree to the charges.
      - fpgeek 14y ago
        And then someone would complain that they were ambushed for an extra $99 fee right when they just wanted to order groceries...
  - jusben1369 14y ago
    Well the implied assumption here is that the day of the free user is over. So it's only two options - Upgrade or leave.
toddmatthews 14y ago
>converting people from free to paid without their explicit approval they did not convert people to paid members, they renewed existing memberships for people who had not been been notified of changes to policies of the membership.

by wilfra 14y ago

tptacek 14y ago

They acknowledged exactly that, reversed the charges, and offered a full refund. I am again left wondering what you actually expected them to do.

gus_massa 14y ago
I don't understand the situation of the other n-71 users. Instacart send an email to them, but apparently the users didn't have to confirm the upgrade. What happened with the mails that got lost, went to the spam folder, where ignored because it looks like standard press release, went to the secondary mail account?
- calebio 14y ago
  There was a post by someone who seems to have worked there claiming the mistake was when they were querying for the users to send the email to. Basically 71 of us were not included in the results of that query so the email was never actually sent to us.
wilfra 14y ago
Read the post again. They did not reverse the charges. They gave 71 people the opportunity to claim a refund. What they should have done was automatically issued a refund to everybody they charged - not just the 71 who didn't receive the email - because they never should have charged anybody who didn't opt-in.
- tptacek 14y ago
  Are we reading the same post? "First, we’re going to refund all delivery fees paid by the people affected by this bug."
  - wilfra 14y ago
    Instacart Express != Delivery Fees.
    - tptacek 14y ago
      "Receive a full refund of the Instacart Express subscription fee immediately"
      - wilfra 14y ago
        They have an option to do that - but if they take no action, they wont receive a refund. And that only applies to the 71 users effected by the bug. The people who got the email but took no action evidently can't even claim a refund. Can you imagine the backlash if Apple started charging $99/year for iCloud and auto-billed everybody who didn't cancel the service?
        niggler 14y ago
        There's the other issue of the notice itself. If they decided in March to make the change, how much time did they give customers to decide? Given the timeline, it seems like it was "effective immediately" rather than giving proper ahead of time notice. Nonetheless, even if they did discuss refunding, the entire process seems shifty. Every service I use (I checked!) warns me five business days in advance by email that they are charging my card or sends a physical mail two weeks in advance. Instacart should be sending an email on each event with the delivery fee spelled out clearly.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - 14y ago

jusben1369 14y ago

You can't win for losing here. A lot of people just won't read your email period. So you can either cancel the accounts of your free users and have 50% of your customer base freak out because you cancelled their account (perhaps wiping history in the process they find important) or you can keep them all active and upgrade them.

frogpelt 14y ago
How about offering people the option to upgrade? If they decline or don't respond, they remain free users. If they accept, upgrade them. Am I missing something?
- tptacek 14y ago
  "They remain free users"? That is an option with unlimited downside for Instacart.
  - Ilmesnkie_Jones 14y ago
    They could leave their accounts dormant until the users next signed in then ask them to either accept the charges or deactivate their account. That would be a lot more ethical than just going ahead and charging them and expecting them to opt out if they don't agree to the charges.
    - fpgeek 14y ago
      And then someone would complain that they were ambushed for an extra $99 fee right when they just wanted to order groceries...
- jusben1369 14y ago
  Well the implied assumption here is that the day of the free user is over. So it's only two options - Upgrade or leave.

toddmatthews 14y ago

>converting people from free to paid without their explicit approval they did not convert people to paid members, they renewed existing memberships for people who had not been been notified of changes to policies of the membership.