5 ms·

I will tell you why it's so freaking hard for single founders: It's so freaking lonely

17 points by volida 20y ago

volida 20y ago
i could talk you about it days, blog about it until my keyboard dies, but the main point pretty much covers it all and its on the header
- amichail 20y ago
  So find ways to make it less lonely. I think that getting back frequent feedback can help in that regard, although it might also increase the chances that someone will copy your service.
  - staunch 20y ago
    Competition could help -- "someone to race against" as Reid Hoffman discussed in an interview.
zkinion 20y ago
Most founders with families in the startup stage of business don't see them that much anyways. Plus you have to network alot so you're always seeing people. However, there would be a lacking of intimate contact. You can bond with other founders but that only goes so far. Society as a whole is becoming increasingly isolated. Many people have hundreds of friends on their "friendspace/mybook", but deep down have no one to really confide in.
zaidf 20y ago
Are you in college? If you aren't enroll part-time. Join every biz/ad/entrepreneur club. Finding a great partner is hard - but far from impossible. Step 1 is to start meeting SOMEWHAT partner-ish people and college is a good start from my experience.
PindaxDotCom 20y ago
When I get lonely, all I need to think about is some of the more annoying folks I've had to work with over the years. God bless em. A few minutes remembering their antics, and I appreciate my solitude anew.
- horar 20y ago
  I tend to think of the people who were made uncomfortable by my antics instead, but I feel a similar sense of relief to be free of them. I've often found comfort in the H.G.Wells short story "The Country of the Blind".
pg 20y ago
I believe it. Oddly enough, it's lonely even when there are a couple of you. This is one of the main reasons we do YC in batches. The startups all become one another's friends, because they're all in the same situation. I think it's well worth the inconvenience of moving in order to have a large group of energetic and sympathetic peers. That's the deal with college, after all.
- volida 20y ago
  the peering and the environement of YC sounds a great place to be
- far33d 20y ago
  I constantly miss that one aspect of college: thousands of intelligent, motivated, somewhat naive, experimental people thinking about the same problems for no reason other than "because it's interesting".
  - mynameishere 20y ago
    Wow. What college did you go to? Unless you're talking about some particularily interesting skirt, I would have missed that...
- dropbox 20y ago
  i've been in this situation before and in general, i agree. and there's a similar kind of suckage being the only technical guy in a startup (i've run a startup for a couple years with a non-technical guy -- smart, but not a hacker.) in my case, i'm working on a new idea alone at the moment while i find the right cofounder. i've found that a good compromise that still allows you forward progress is to hang out with people who are in the same boat, even if you're not working on the same stuff. i worked over the summer with a couple yc guys who were also starting their own thing and it was great to have other people to bounce ideas off of and frankly to have other people who were stuck inside on friday nights or up at 3am (welcome to the startup world, kids -- often not as glamorous as you'd hope :)) when everyone else is out drinking. it didn't matter that we weren't working on the same stuff -- there was still that esprit de corps and a shoulder to tap when you're working on something cool. i think it's just the being-in-a-room-by-yourself that sucks, especially if you have roommates on a completely different schedule. and i think it's worth waiting for the right cofounder, even if that means you have to hack the prototype or even launch a beta by yourself -- more startups implode for people reasons than anything else. there's hope; a good friend of mine has been running his own show for a while after his cofounder left and he's doing fine (but works in an office with other entrepreneurial types), and founders at work has numerous examples of people who had to hoof it on their own for a period of time and did ok (evan williams, a bunch of others). so if you're in this situation, just get some moral support and keep making forward progress until you find the right cofounder. good luck! -drew
volida 20y ago
zaidf, amichail the thing is that most of the time you don't care. But there are times that suddenly you become aware of it, and if its one of the times that it annoys you then it strikes you, and thats when you need maybe somebody to either support you (the case of someone who is active part in the early process of starting up) or fulfil it before it becomes a need. And as always you must get over it
- zaidf 20y ago
  Trust me I've gone through it. I've posted before my success ratio in partner versus no partner ventures. In my case I couldn't get over it and after few too many projects going no where, I decided to take the partner route. I doubt I'll be starting anything in future without a partner or two.
joshwa 20y ago
has anyone found any of the various web2.0/entrepreneur meetups to be useful for this? I'll be at the next web2.0 meetup in NYC -- http://newtech.meetup.com/21/ http://newtech.meetup.com/21/
- danw 20y ago
  I've found events such as opencoffee and barcamps to be encouraging. Only trouble is the barcamps only happen every few weeks
goodgoblin 20y ago
Long hours without alot of positive feedback from the business you are building can be very lonely. Its kind of like the first 6 months you are taking care of a baby, they really don't do much but need to be attended to constantly, and usually you can take solace in the sheer love of what you are making, but sometimes at 4 am when the little thing is crying and all you want to do is get some sleep and then you have to get up and go into work the next day anyway, having someone to share the experience with is great. I like the idea of meetups, but I'm in the Hartford area, not sure there are a ton of startups around. What would be kind of cool though would be some kind of "Who's working on their startup now" list, maybe even here on YC's site, where people could sign-in when you start working and we could have some kind of quiet community, even if its just the ethereal prescence of our names.
brett 20y ago
Definitely. I think there's more to it, but you've captured the fact the most the major downsides are emotional/psychological. There's no one to temper doubts. Worse, you're not letting anyone else down if you slack off; having others depend on your efforts is a powerful motivator. "so freaking lonely" does sum it up pretty well though.
myoung8 20y ago
if anyone on here is looking for a b-side partner, let me know.
- myoung8 20y ago
  myoung8 at stanford dot edu
juwo 20y ago
you struck a chord here, buddy! you are absolutely right. That's why I like news.YC so much - clean wholesome fun. A watering hole for entrepreneur animals. If you are looking for a cofounder, email me.
- bootload 20y ago
  '... clean wholesome fun. A watering hole for entrepreneur animals ...' love that quote. Someones whacked up a 'search for co-founder site' ... can't remember where.
  - juwo 20y ago
    thank you!
floozyspeak 20y ago
i totally agree with this, here in the midwest i can barely find a handful of folks that even know what i'm talking about when it comes to 2.0 type ideas... it is heavy, and you feel lonely, and yet you also feel like you got nothing to lose other than a house, a life, family and everything else... which is why we all need to be more wealthy, and more sane via yoga and good workouts...
pixcavator 20y ago
"Lonely"?! That's the biggest problem? What about the hundreds of other posts? Come on...
goodgoblin 20y ago
Here's Sting's take on the issue: http://youtube.com/watch?v=cffpdZIFjxc http://youtube.com/watch?v=cffpdZIFjxc
goodgoblin 20y ago
bootload 20y ago
good sociologist type q's raised here. could this 'loneliness' be an indicator of 'personality' as well as being a single founder? For instance are you (anyone) energised in the presence of crowds? (for me, no). Variations in founder personality types come into play here. could also be an indicator of how many 'related/non-related' social groups you inhabit. Do you meet others in other social contexts? I mix in 3-4 non startup groups, thats more than enough. There are definite advantages of working in groups of like minded. The sharing of knowledge, contacts, protection ~ I'm primarily thinking of how other ape-like creatures work/live, passing on knowledge & skills. Doesn't the web allow this kind of behaviour virtually?
- goodgoblin 20y ago
  There are many communication cues the web doesn't distribute. I can't see if you are frowning or smiling as you read this, I can't hear if your voice is desperate or confident. I would bet that much of that information contributes to ape-like creatures sense of well being and progress.
staunch 20y ago
"Shared Struggle" is one of the most compelling reasons for doing startups. A small ragtag band of hackers battling the odds. When you're trying to do it alone there's the feeling that even if you did make it no one would know how hard it was. Besides, who's going to write the tell-all memoir about the "real" you?
lak 20y ago
I'm running an open-source software startup (apparently one of the three entrepreneurs who read this site and don't care about web apps), and I get plenty of interaction from my community. My problem is that no one else knows the code base or the problem space nearly as well as I do, which means the majority of my technical decisions are made with essentially no feedback. I don't have problems with loneliness, and never really did even before I had an active community; I just have problems making competent decisions, especially since I'm a sysadmin turned developer, so I'm a bit out of water doing a software startup. All you web guys need to quit yer complaining; at least you've got thousands of other entrepreneurs who are in the same boat. There is almost no one else in the sysadmin space, and pretty much everyone's eyes just glaze over when I mention that I'm working on infrastructure, not AJAXy web 2.0 bling.

17 points by volida 20y ago

i could talk you about it days, blog about it until my keyboard dies, but the main point pretty much covers it all and its on the header

amichail 20y ago
So find ways to make it less lonely. I think that getting back frequent feedback can help in that regard, although it might also increase the chances that someone will copy your service.
- staunch 20y ago
  Competition could help -- "someone to race against" as Reid Hoffman discussed in an interview.

zkinion 20y ago

Most founders with families in the startup stage of business don't see them that much anyways. Plus you have to network alot so you're always seeing people. However, there would be a lacking of intimate contact. You can bond with other founders but that only goes so far. Society as a whole is becoming increasingly isolated. Many people have hundreds of friends on their "friendspace/mybook", but deep down have no one to really confide in.

zaidf 20y ago

Are you in college? If you aren't enroll part-time. Join every biz/ad/entrepreneur club. Finding a great partner is hard - but far from impossible. Step 1 is to start meeting SOMEWHAT partner-ish people and college is a good start from my experience.

PindaxDotCom 20y ago

When I get lonely, all I need to think about is some of the more annoying folks I've had to work with over the years. God bless em. A few minutes remembering their antics, and I appreciate my solitude anew.

horar 20y ago
I tend to think of the people who were made uncomfortable by my antics instead, but I feel a similar sense of relief to be free of them. I've often found comfort in the H.G.Wells short story "The Country of the Blind".

pg 20y ago

I believe it. Oddly enough, it's lonely even when there are a couple of you. This is one of the main reasons we do YC in batches. The startups all become one another's friends, because they're all in the same situation. I think it's well worth the inconvenience of moving in order to have a large group of energetic and sympathetic peers. That's the deal with college, after all.

volida 20y ago
the peering and the environement of YC sounds a great place to be
far33d 20y ago
I constantly miss that one aspect of college: thousands of intelligent, motivated, somewhat naive, experimental people thinking about the same problems for no reason other than "because it's interesting".
- mynameishere 20y ago
  Wow. What college did you go to? Unless you're talking about some particularily interesting skirt, I would have missed that...
dropbox 20y ago
i've been in this situation before and in general, i agree. and there's a similar kind of suckage being the only technical guy in a startup (i've run a startup for a couple years with a non-technical guy -- smart, but not a hacker.) in my case, i'm working on a new idea alone at the moment while i find the right cofounder. i've found that a good compromise that still allows you forward progress is to hang out with people who are in the same boat, even if you're not working on the same stuff. i worked over the summer with a couple yc guys who were also starting their own thing and it was great to have other people to bounce ideas off of and frankly to have other people who were stuck inside on friday nights or up at 3am (welcome to the startup world, kids -- often not as glamorous as you'd hope :)) when everyone else is out drinking. it didn't matter that we weren't working on the same stuff -- there was still that esprit de corps and a shoulder to tap when you're working on something cool. i think it's just the being-in-a-room-by-yourself that sucks, especially if you have roommates on a completely different schedule. and i think it's worth waiting for the right cofounder, even if that means you have to hack the prototype or even launch a beta by yourself -- more startups implode for people reasons than anything else. there's hope; a good friend of mine has been running his own show for a while after his cofounder left and he's doing fine (but works in an office with other entrepreneurial types), and founders at work has numerous examples of people who had to hoof it on their own for a period of time and did ok (evan williams, a bunch of others). so if you're in this situation, just get some moral support and keep making forward progress until you find the right cofounder. good luck! -drew

volida 20y ago

zaidf, amichail the thing is that most of the time you don't care. But there are times that suddenly you become aware of it, and if its one of the times that it annoys you then it strikes you, and thats when you need maybe somebody to either support you (the case of someone who is active part in the early process of starting up) or fulfil it before it becomes a need. And as always you must get over it

zaidf 20y ago
Trust me I've gone through it. I've posted before my success ratio in partner versus no partner ventures. In my case I couldn't get over it and after few too many projects going no where, I decided to take the partner route. I doubt I'll be starting anything in future without a partner or two.

joshwa 20y ago

has anyone found any of the various web2.0/entrepreneur meetups to be useful for this? I'll be at the next web2.0 meetup in NYC -- http://newtech.meetup.com/21/ http://newtech.meetup.com/21/

danw 20y ago
I've found events such as opencoffee and barcamps to be encouraging. Only trouble is the barcamps only happen every few weeks

goodgoblin 20y ago

Long hours without alot of positive feedback from the business you are building can be very lonely. Its kind of like the first 6 months you are taking care of a baby, they really don't do much but need to be attended to constantly, and usually you can take solace in the sheer love of what you are making, but sometimes at 4 am when the little thing is crying and all you want to do is get some sleep and then you have to get up and go into work the next day anyway, having someone to share the experience with is great. I like the idea of meetups, but I'm in the Hartford area, not sure there are a ton of startups around. What would be kind of cool though would be some kind of "Who's working on their startup now" list, maybe even here on YC's site, where people could sign-in when you start working and we could have some kind of quiet community, even if its just the ethereal prescence of our names.

brett 20y ago

Definitely. I think there's more to it, but you've captured the fact the most the major downsides are emotional/psychological. There's no one to temper doubts. Worse, you're not letting anyone else down if you slack off; having others depend on your efforts is a powerful motivator. "so freaking lonely" does sum it up pretty well though.

myoung8 20y ago

if anyone on here is looking for a b-side partner, let me know.

myoung8 20y ago
myoung8 at stanford dot edu

juwo 20y ago

you struck a chord here, buddy! you are absolutely right. That's why I like news.YC so much - clean wholesome fun. A watering hole for entrepreneur animals. If you are looking for a cofounder, email me.

bootload 20y ago
'... clean wholesome fun. A watering hole for entrepreneur animals ...' love that quote. Someones whacked up a 'search for co-founder site' ... can't remember where.
- juwo 20y ago
  thank you!

floozyspeak 20y ago

i totally agree with this, here in the midwest i can barely find a handful of folks that even know what i'm talking about when it comes to 2.0 type ideas... it is heavy, and you feel lonely, and yet you also feel like you got nothing to lose other than a house, a life, family and everything else... which is why we all need to be more wealthy, and more sane via yoga and good workouts...

pixcavator 20y ago

"Lonely"?! That's the biggest problem? What about the hundreds of other posts? Come on...

goodgoblin 20y ago

Here's Sting's take on the issue: http://youtube.com/watch?v=cffpdZIFjxc http://youtube.com/watch?v=cffpdZIFjxc

goodgoblin 20y ago

bootload 20y ago

good sociologist type q's raised here. could this 'loneliness' be an indicator of 'personality' as well as being a single founder? For instance are you (anyone) energised in the presence of crowds? (for me, no). Variations in founder personality types come into play here. could also be an indicator of how many 'related/non-related' social groups you inhabit. Do you meet others in other social contexts? I mix in 3-4 non startup groups, thats more than enough. There are definite advantages of working in groups of like minded. The sharing of knowledge, contacts, protection ~ I'm primarily thinking of how other ape-like creatures work/live, passing on knowledge & skills. Doesn't the web allow this kind of behaviour virtually?

goodgoblin 20y ago
There are many communication cues the web doesn't distribute. I can't see if you are frowning or smiling as you read this, I can't hear if your voice is desperate or confident. I would bet that much of that information contributes to ape-like creatures sense of well being and progress.

staunch 20y ago

"Shared Struggle" is one of the most compelling reasons for doing startups. A small ragtag band of hackers battling the odds. When you're trying to do it alone there's the feeling that even if you did make it no one would know how hard it was. Besides, who's going to write the tell-all memoir about the "real" you?

lak 20y ago

I'm running an open-source software startup (apparently one of the three entrepreneurs who read this site and don't care about web apps), and I get plenty of interaction from my community. My problem is that no one else knows the code base or the problem space nearly as well as I do, which means the majority of my technical decisions are made with essentially no feedback. I don't have problems with loneliness, and never really did even before I had an active community; I just have problems making competent decisions, especially since I'm a sysadmin turned developer, so I'm a bit out of water doing a software startup. All you web guys need to quit yer complaining; at least you've got thousands of other entrepreneurs who are in the same boat. There is almost no one else in the sysadmin space, and pretty much everyone's eyes just glaze over when I mention that I'm working on infrastructure, not AJAXy web 2.0 bling.