4 ms·

"There was always a “cloud” in the ARPA view of things — this is why we invented the networks we did." All part of the plan.

bitwize 14y ago
The "cloud" is overhyped precisely because if you scratch off the marketing, what you're left with is just another word for the internet. I suppose it's a better metaphor than "cyberspace", but still...
- simonh 14y ago
  I think it's still useful to draw a distinction between humans using the internet through browsers, and applications using the internet to access services. Of course applications accessing services through a network has always been part of the plan, but the shift from predominantly using services on the company network towards building businesses based on outsources services on external networks is an important one. I can see why someone like Kay would find the current 'gosh wow' breathlessness about cloud computing a bit sad, but even if it would have been nice for this transition to have happened decades ago, it doesn't change the fact it's still an important and disruptive transition.
- DanBC 14y ago
  The cloud is overhyped because we're not using Plan9.
  - pjmlp 14y ago
    Thankfully.
- scott_s 14y ago
  To me, "cloud" is the growing phenomenon of removing the need for individuals and organizations to own their own hardware. That's quite different from the existing network of networks.
  - sodomizer 14y ago
    You mean, sort of like how we all used to log on to mainframes, or rent Linux accounts from our webhosts?
    - scott_s 14y ago
      Yes, sort of. But the scale at which it is happening is not like that. Even a small company still owned that mainframe, and physically stored it onsite. And that Linux account on your webhost wasn't quite as capable as a computer you could own - you couldn't, for example, spin up 10,000 of them and create an ad-hoc cluster to run your giant MPI application. Organizations will start viewing computers as a utility they subscribe to, rather than something they own. Should we buy another server, or just rent them through Amazon? In the future, I think that fewer organizations will own hardware - to the extent that it will change the hardware market completely.
  - alberich 14y ago
    Actually "cloud" can be traced to relatively old ideas like utility computing. It just was not very feasible back then. EDIT: "If computers of the kind I have advocated become the computers of the future, then computing may someday be organized as a public utility just as the telephone system is a public utility... The computer utility could become the basis of a new and important industry." (John McCarthy, 1961)
    - scott_s 14y ago
      The idea may be old, but what's new is that it's becoming possible.

bitwize 14y ago

The "cloud" is overhyped precisely because if you scratch off the marketing, what you're left with is just another word for the internet. I suppose it's a better metaphor than "cyberspace", but still...

simonh 14y ago
I think it's still useful to draw a distinction between humans using the internet through browsers, and applications using the internet to access services. Of course applications accessing services through a network has always been part of the plan, but the shift from predominantly using services on the company network towards building businesses based on outsources services on external networks is an important one. I can see why someone like Kay would find the current 'gosh wow' breathlessness about cloud computing a bit sad, but even if it would have been nice for this transition to have happened decades ago, it doesn't change the fact it's still an important and disruptive transition.
DanBC 14y ago
The cloud is overhyped because we're not using Plan9.
- pjmlp 14y ago
  Thankfully.
scott_s 14y ago
To me, "cloud" is the growing phenomenon of removing the need for individuals and organizations to own their own hardware. That's quite different from the existing network of networks.
- sodomizer 14y ago
  You mean, sort of like how we all used to log on to mainframes, or rent Linux accounts from our webhosts?
  - scott_s 14y ago
    Yes, sort of. But the scale at which it is happening is not like that. Even a small company still owned that mainframe, and physically stored it onsite. And that Linux account on your webhost wasn't quite as capable as a computer you could own - you couldn't, for example, spin up 10,000 of them and create an ad-hoc cluster to run your giant MPI application. Organizations will start viewing computers as a utility they subscribe to, rather than something they own. Should we buy another server, or just rent them through Amazon? In the future, I think that fewer organizations will own hardware - to the extent that it will change the hardware market completely.
- alberich 14y ago
  Actually "cloud" can be traced to relatively old ideas like utility computing. It just was not very feasible back then. EDIT: "If computers of the kind I have advocated become the computers of the future, then computing may someday be organized as a public utility just as the telephone system is a public utility... The computer utility could become the basis of a new and important industry." (John McCarthy, 1961)
  - scott_s 14y ago
    The idea may be old, but what's new is that it's becoming possible.