5 ms·

A Sandwich, a Startup, and Soon, a Lawsuit? The Crunchbutton Story

24 points by jrosenblatt 14y ago

michaelhoffman 14y ago
It's not the Ivy League, just one member, Brown. And no one has been sued.
- michaelhoffman 14y ago
  This was in response to the original false title for this submission.
jrockway 14y ago
It doesn't sound like Brown has a particularly solid case. I see no reason why an outside company can't request student ID numbers, nor can I see a problem with an outside company paying someone to go to the restaurant and pick up a bunch of sandwiches now and again. Step 1: Write nastygram with no intention of filing a lawsuit and hope the empty threats scare away the people you don't like. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit?
- rayiner 14y ago
  There are safety/security implications to having a company e.g. use student ID numbers to do the various nefarious things companies do these days with personal information. Especially in a campus environment, with a restaurant that seems like it wasn't open to the general public.
  - nicoly5000 14y ago
    Sure, but they deleted the Brown IDs and complied with Brown's demands after the cease and desist. Now they're making these sandwiches at another restaurant, and Brown's still threatening them.
    - rayiner 14y ago
      We have no idea what for--the article just gives a quote from Rosenblatt: "The startup has heard nothing more from Brown directly. But Rosenblatt says the same Brown lawyer started “harassing Betaspring” on March 18 with e-mails and phone calls to the accelerator’s partners and office manager; Rosenblatt says his interpretation was that the university was “preparing to serve us” with a lawsuit."
- Kylekramer 14y ago
  It was due to my alma mater's (McGill) poor security, but IDs + some minor extra info like DOB were able to be used for a lot of stuff (if i recall correctly ID was the username with DOB as the default password and voila, you got free reign to everything from financial information and even withdrawing a person from Uni entirely) when I was in school. It is mostly due to the trusting and insular nature of universities where they assume that there isn't going to be malicious attacks, but I can see why they rather not have that information given away.
rayiner 14y ago
> The letter went on to demand that Crunchbutton stop listing Jo’s on its website; stop offering delivery service from any Brown dining establishment; stop collecting student ID numbers (for payment purposes); destroy any retained ID numbers; and stop using Brown facilities for any marketing or promotional activities. Except perhaps the first one, none of these seem unreasonable to me. The article also seems to gloss over aspects of the situation that could make this "innovator" look bad. Why did they need to collect student ID's for "payment purposes?" What exactly was this "defamatory statement?" When your "innovation" consists of leveraging someone else's product, it's generally bad form (even if not illegal per se, unless it amounts to trademark infringement) to make it seem like you have an association with them when you don't.
- ktrgardiner 14y ago
  I'm not sure about Brown, but at my school we had student IDs which could also act as credit cards for "school money". Meal plans would come with a set amount of school money and you could load more on the card. This money could then be used at places around campus as well as local restaurants and grocery stores that would accept the card. Certain services (such as delivery.com which was popular in the area) also accepted school cards. So my guess is that the student IDs were simply the number associated with the credit card for using special school money.
- ynniv 14y ago
  When your "innovation" consists of leveraging someone else's product, it's generally bad form (even if not illegal per se, unless it amounts to trademark infringement) to make it seem like you have an association with them when you don't. I know there were recent discussions about copyrights with the Aereo decision, but come on: this company submits an order for delivery to you. THEY ARE LISTING WHAT YOU MIGHT GET. I can assure you that the manager of the shop isn't complaining about the increased business. In fact, I can't even see why there is a complaint. Perhaps this is a loss leading sandwich? Delivering Jo's sandwiches is not Crunchbutton's core business, which is charging a premium to deliver above average food with below average hassle. If the university really wants to swing their IP around, all they will succeed in doing is making another local food business more successful. (Come to think of it, they're probably preemptively attacking Crunchbutton over something frivolous to protect their high rent on campus food service real estate.)
mhluongo 14y ago
Well shit. How were you guys even offering delivery for said sandwich if Brown wasn't involved? Are you moving to power delivery yourselves?
- mhluongo 14y ago
  On second thought, it's probably good if you guys don't respond to comments, duh.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
mechnik 14y ago
I imagine Brown has some sort of student run "Student Services", e.g. fridge rentals, bagel deliveries, bouncers, etc..., and would welcome service such as yours if it were run by its own students. Why not offer an affiliate/franchise campus program?
- mechnik 14y ago
  I remember when a student would walk through the dorms each afternoon, yelling 'Bagelman is here'. His business was sanctioned by the university, otherwise it was his own affair. These days, instead of yelling, you could have a phone app which would alert customers that the seller is near, transmit orders to him/her, maybe even use a mobile payment scheme to complete the transaction for whatever.
notmarkus 14y ago
I met these guys back in September and we talked a lot about Providence restaurants. Glad to see they're doing well enough to get sued by Brown... Sort of...
cjkarr 14y ago
Collecting student ID numbers is a big no-no, given the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974. While the startup may not be bound by FERPA, Brown is responsible for protecting those student ID numbers. The University of Tennessee has a decent guide to the statute: http://ferpa.utk.edu/questions.php http://ferpa.utk.edu/questions.php

24 points by jrosenblatt 14y ago

michaelhoffman 14y ago

It's not the Ivy League, just one member, Brown. And no one has been sued.

michaelhoffman 14y ago
This was in response to the original false title for this submission.

jrockway 14y ago

It doesn't sound like Brown has a particularly solid case. I see no reason why an outside company can't request student ID numbers, nor can I see a problem with an outside company paying someone to go to the restaurant and pick up a bunch of sandwiches now and again. Step 1: Write nastygram with no intention of filing a lawsuit and hope the empty threats scare away the people you don't like. Step 2: ??? Step 3: Profit?

rayiner 14y ago
There are safety/security implications to having a company e.g. use student ID numbers to do the various nefarious things companies do these days with personal information. Especially in a campus environment, with a restaurant that seems like it wasn't open to the general public.
- nicoly5000 14y ago
  Sure, but they deleted the Brown IDs and complied with Brown's demands after the cease and desist. Now they're making these sandwiches at another restaurant, and Brown's still threatening them.
  - rayiner 14y ago
    We have no idea what for--the article just gives a quote from Rosenblatt: "The startup has heard nothing more from Brown directly. But Rosenblatt says the same Brown lawyer started “harassing Betaspring” on March 18 with e-mails and phone calls to the accelerator’s partners and office manager; Rosenblatt says his interpretation was that the university was “preparing to serve us” with a lawsuit."
Kylekramer 14y ago
It was due to my alma mater's (McGill) poor security, but IDs + some minor extra info like DOB were able to be used for a lot of stuff (if i recall correctly ID was the username with DOB as the default password and voila, you got free reign to everything from financial information and even withdrawing a person from Uni entirely) when I was in school. It is mostly due to the trusting and insular nature of universities where they assume that there isn't going to be malicious attacks, but I can see why they rather not have that information given away.

rayiner 14y ago

> The letter went on to demand that Crunchbutton stop listing Jo’s on its website; stop offering delivery service from any Brown dining establishment; stop collecting student ID numbers (for payment purposes); destroy any retained ID numbers; and stop using Brown facilities for any marketing or promotional activities. Except perhaps the first one, none of these seem unreasonable to me. The article also seems to gloss over aspects of the situation that could make this "innovator" look bad. Why did they need to collect student ID's for "payment purposes?" What exactly was this "defamatory statement?" When your "innovation" consists of leveraging someone else's product, it's generally bad form (even if not illegal per se, unless it amounts to trademark infringement) to make it seem like you have an association with them when you don't.

ktrgardiner 14y ago
I'm not sure about Brown, but at my school we had student IDs which could also act as credit cards for "school money". Meal plans would come with a set amount of school money and you could load more on the card. This money could then be used at places around campus as well as local restaurants and grocery stores that would accept the card. Certain services (such as delivery.com which was popular in the area) also accepted school cards. So my guess is that the student IDs were simply the number associated with the credit card for using special school money.
ynniv 14y ago
When your "innovation" consists of leveraging someone else's product, it's generally bad form (even if not illegal per se, unless it amounts to trademark infringement) to make it seem like you have an association with them when you don't. I know there were recent discussions about copyrights with the Aereo decision, but come on: this company submits an order for delivery to you. THEY ARE LISTING WHAT YOU MIGHT GET. I can assure you that the manager of the shop isn't complaining about the increased business. In fact, I can't even see why there is a complaint. Perhaps this is a loss leading sandwich? Delivering Jo's sandwiches is not Crunchbutton's core business, which is charging a premium to deliver above average food with below average hassle. If the university really wants to swing their IP around, all they will succeed in doing is making another local food business more successful. (Come to think of it, they're probably preemptively attacking Crunchbutton over something frivolous to protect their high rent on campus food service real estate.)

mhluongo 14y ago

Well shit. How were you guys even offering delivery for said sandwich if Brown wasn't involved? Are you moving to power delivery yourselves?

mhluongo 14y ago
On second thought, it's probably good if you guys don't respond to comments, duh.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

mechnik 14y ago

I imagine Brown has some sort of student run "Student Services", e.g. fridge rentals, bagel deliveries, bouncers, etc..., and would welcome service such as yours if it were run by its own students. Why not offer an affiliate/franchise campus program?

mechnik 14y ago
I remember when a student would walk through the dorms each afternoon, yelling 'Bagelman is here'. His business was sanctioned by the university, otherwise it was his own affair. These days, instead of yelling, you could have a phone app which would alert customers that the seller is near, transmit orders to him/her, maybe even use a mobile payment scheme to complete the transaction for whatever.

notmarkus 14y ago

I met these guys back in September and we talked a lot about Providence restaurants. Glad to see they're doing well enough to get sued by Brown... Sort of...

cjkarr 14y ago

Collecting student ID numbers is a big no-no, given the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974. While the startup may not be bound by FERPA, Brown is responsible for protecting those student ID numbers. The University of Tennessee has a decent guide to the statute: http://ferpa.utk.edu/questions.php http://ferpa.utk.edu/questions.php