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> Now, can you explain this BS about "first-order observations" (as if nobody besides you can be a first-order observer of the same phenomenon)? We are all on t

> Now, can you explain this BS about "first-order observations" (as if nobody besides you can be a first-order observer of the same phenomenon)? We are all on the same social news site. He can all observe the same first-order things. Fair point. What I should have said was that the hellbanned comments I saw could not have been interpreted the way you did. > Let me put it this way: wishing rape/death on the net is 4-chan, hi-school bully level shit. Censorship on the other hand is actual dictatorship level shit. Censorship has been historically associated with the very worst in societies and regimes. Immature threats from anonymous cowards on the other hand, have not. Here's where you and I disagree. It's not for men to say that wishing rape and death on women is just high-school-level shit, just like it's not for white people to say that black people need to lighten up about the whole race thing. You just don't have any moral basis to make light of those things, regardless of how correct you might be about the ultimate effects of a given attitude. Hellbanning would be dictatorship-level if it somehow extended beyond a single private internet site. But the thing is, hellbanning, cruel though it may seem, is entirely proportional to the problem of internet trolling which is extremely intractable via more "humane" methods due to disposable nature of online identity.

coldtea 14y ago
>Here's where you and I disagree. It's not for men to say that wishing rape and death on women is just high-school-level shit, just like it's not for white people to say that black people need to lighten up about the whole race thing. Yes, here is were we actually disagree. I thing it's equally valid for a man or a woman to say that those things are just "high-school-level shit". Why? Because if we strive for equality, we cannot grant unequal rights to any party. What you suggest amounts, for me, to saying "women are too precious to deal with these things" so they have a right to be upset about them, but men don't get to have a say. Which perpetuates the kind of distinction we want to avoid. >It's not for men to say that wishing rape and death on women is just high-school-level shit, just like it's not for white people to say that black people need to lighten up about the whole race thing. You just don't have any moral basis to make light of those things, regardless of how correct you might be about the ultimate effects of a given attitude. I don't think you need a moral basis if you aren't doing the bad things yourself. It's par for the course for living in a society, to get to have a say in all issues. But you have a point about active/ongoing injustices. Just that some times, even though the injustice is real, people use it for hypocritical reasons (playing the victim).

coldtea 14y ago

>Here's where you and I disagree. It's not for men to say that wishing rape and death on women is just high-school-level shit, just like it's not for white people to say that black people need to lighten up about the whole race thing. Yes, here is were we actually disagree. I thing it's equally valid for a man or a woman to say that those things are just "high-school-level shit". Why? Because if we strive for equality, we cannot grant unequal rights to any party. What you suggest amounts, for me, to saying "women are too precious to deal with these things" so they have a right to be upset about them, but men don't get to have a say. Which perpetuates the kind of distinction we want to avoid. >It's not for men to say that wishing rape and death on women is just high-school-level shit, just like it's not for white people to say that black people need to lighten up about the whole race thing. You just don't have any moral basis to make light of those things, regardless of how correct you might be about the ultimate effects of a given attitude. I don't think you need a moral basis if you aren't doing the bad things yourself. It's par for the course for living in a society, to get to have a say in all issues. But you have a point about active/ongoing injustices. Just that some times, even though the injustice is real, people use it for hypocritical reasons (playing the victim).