3 ms·

I don't want the first 30 pages to tell me everything. Nor should it be like that, it's just not healthy for the writer's imagination. But by then I should be h

I don't want the first 30 pages to tell me everything. Nor should it be like that, it's just not healthy for the writer's imagination. But by then I should be hooked in any way, no?

blowski 14y ago
To use your analogy of falling in love, the first 30 pages are like the first date. They can be beautiful, funny, and interesting, but after a while it can turn out that it was just a combination of good lighting, alcohol, and some overheard jokes. If you get on, then it's mostly lust at this stage anyway. It takes a lot more time together to know whether you're actually in love. And if you don't click, maybe there's no point in meeting up again. But you have to question whether it's you or them. What are you looking for in a partner? Someone deep and meaningful with whom you can spend a lifetime, or a superficial one-night stand that you forget after a few days.
- restreitinho 14y ago
  True, great analogy. But answering your question, I prefer the first of course. But you have a greater probability of finding your special someone if there's some initial chemistry, right? Again, the first date isn't everything. But first impressions matter a lot for what comes next.
  - blowski 14y ago
    To stretch this analogy beyond breaking point, of course you want some initial chemistry, but you need to ask what you're bringing to this relationship / reading. Imagine you're friends hook you up on a blind date with someone described as "charismatic, supermodel looks, professorial brains". And you turn up, thinking "OK, Blind Date you have 30 minutes to impress me, or I'm outta here." That's what it's like picking up Tolstoy or Hugo and saying "if I'm not hooked after 30 pages, I'm just going to quit reading". You need to bring something to the reading. Just as you expect Tolstoy to be interesting, so he expects you to be rather knowledgable about 19th Century European history, Christian philosophy, farming practices amongst serfs in Tsarist Russia. You can still fall in love with War and Peace without that knowledge (as I did), but it will take more effort from you and thus might take more than 30 pages. And Tolstoy expects you to make, and to want to make, the effort to think about what he's writing. Dan Brown expects you to be time-pressed or naive - either unable or unwilling to challenge even his most basic assertions about history. So he writes for his audience, as Tolstoy writes for his. Tolstoy's motivations were closer to evangelism and pushing a political agenda. Dan Brown's are more about becoming rich. And if all you are thinking while reading the book is "what am I getting from this?" then you're never going to enjoy it as you otherwise might. I read Crime and Punishment because I picked up quickly as I left the house for the airport. Stuck on a plane with nothing else to do, I slogged through the opening section, trying to cope with weird names and an alien culture. But that book, caused me to get into lots of other Russian literature, become Christian, and ultimately inspired some of the conversations that lead me to marrying my wife. I doubt anyone can say that about a Stig Larsson or James Patterson pageturner.
    - restreitinho 14y ago
      Ok, it's a very good argument. Of course we as readers also have to add something, and our background is important; the more we open our minds I believe the better our criteria of interestingness will be. Today I read stuff 3 years ago I would have no patience to read, it's also an exercise in which you evolve. But you're using an example of a classic while I tried to focus on online articles and other contemporary books, in an era where there's always another stimulum. I say in response to this we must make choices, and "what am I getting from this?" is the way I found to help filter all this information. I'm glad it's not a fixed set of rules, because as your story exemplifies exceptions make much better stories. Still regarding choices: Dan Brown sure can hook us in the first 30 pages, but we are the ones who choose if we want to read Dan Brown in the first place. It's yet another layer of discussion to add to this. PS: I'm glad this subject isn't dead and dry and sparks such discussion. Wasn't expecting this at all.

I don't want the first 30 pages to tell me everything. Nor should it be like that, it's just not healthy for the writer's imagination. But by then I should be hooked in any way, no?

blowski 14y ago

To use your analogy of falling in love, the first 30 pages are like the first date. They can be beautiful, funny, and interesting, but after a while it can turn out that it was just a combination of good lighting, alcohol, and some overheard jokes. If you get on, then it's mostly lust at this stage anyway. It takes a lot more time together to know whether you're actually in love. And if you don't click, maybe there's no point in meeting up again. But you have to question whether it's you or them. What are you looking for in a partner? Someone deep and meaningful with whom you can spend a lifetime, or a superficial one-night stand that you forget after a few days.

restreitinho 14y ago
True, great analogy. But answering your question, I prefer the first of course. But you have a greater probability of finding your special someone if there's some initial chemistry, right? Again, the first date isn't everything. But first impressions matter a lot for what comes next.
- blowski 14y ago
  To stretch this analogy beyond breaking point, of course you want some initial chemistry, but you need to ask what you're bringing to this relationship / reading. Imagine you're friends hook you up on a blind date with someone described as "charismatic, supermodel looks, professorial brains". And you turn up, thinking "OK, Blind Date you have 30 minutes to impress me, or I'm outta here." That's what it's like picking up Tolstoy or Hugo and saying "if I'm not hooked after 30 pages, I'm just going to quit reading". You need to bring something to the reading. Just as you expect Tolstoy to be interesting, so he expects you to be rather knowledgable about 19th Century European history, Christian philosophy, farming practices amongst serfs in Tsarist Russia. You can still fall in love with War and Peace without that knowledge (as I did), but it will take more effort from you and thus might take more than 30 pages. And Tolstoy expects you to make, and to want to make, the effort to think about what he's writing. Dan Brown expects you to be time-pressed or naive - either unable or unwilling to challenge even his most basic assertions about history. So he writes for his audience, as Tolstoy writes for his. Tolstoy's motivations were closer to evangelism and pushing a political agenda. Dan Brown's are more about becoming rich. And if all you are thinking while reading the book is "what am I getting from this?" then you're never going to enjoy it as you otherwise might. I read Crime and Punishment because I picked up quickly as I left the house for the airport. Stuck on a plane with nothing else to do, I slogged through the opening section, trying to cope with weird names and an alien culture. But that book, caused me to get into lots of other Russian literature, become Christian, and ultimately inspired some of the conversations that lead me to marrying my wife. I doubt anyone can say that about a Stig Larsson or James Patterson pageturner.
  - restreitinho 14y ago
    Ok, it's a very good argument. Of course we as readers also have to add something, and our background is important; the more we open our minds I believe the better our criteria of interestingness will be. Today I read stuff 3 years ago I would have no patience to read, it's also an exercise in which you evolve. But you're using an example of a classic while I tried to focus on online articles and other contemporary books, in an era where there's always another stimulum. I say in response to this we must make choices, and "what am I getting from this?" is the way I found to help filter all this information. I'm glad it's not a fixed set of rules, because as your story exemplifies exceptions make much better stories. Still regarding choices: Dan Brown sure can hook us in the first 30 pages, but we are the ones who choose if we want to read Dan Brown in the first place. It's yet another layer of discussion to add to this. PS: I'm glad this subject isn't dead and dry and sparks such discussion. Wasn't expecting this at all.