4 ms·

I found this post really really good. I've been hiring for a few months and obviously want to treat candidates well. A lot of the points you made are things I h

by pbiggar 14y ago

I found this post really really good. I've been hiring for a few months and obviously want to treat candidates well. A lot of the points you made are things I had realized by myself, some were new and interesting, but there are a few things I disagreed with. > If your contact is jobs@foo.bar... I'm unclear what you'd prefer. I man the jobs@circleci.com mailing list, and while I agree it's impersonal, I don't think there's a better alternative. Should I use paul@circleci.com? What if someone else needs to take over for a few days? What about when we've grown too big for me to personally respond to every applicant, and we have dozens of HN posts (or other places with similar content) pointing to an email which is no longer useful. I think jobs@circleci.com is the best approach, but welcome better suggestions. It also has the advantage that everyone in the company gets it, so we can all look them over if needs be. > If I respond to your post 3 days after the posting date. [...] I obviously know the job is still available, I'm looking for a 2-line reply so I know you actually give a damn. Don't do this. Put yourself in my shoes. Do you think I know you're looking to see if I give a damn? Which I don't, because I get dozens of job emails a day, and most of them don't come across as stupid (which that does). > Acknowledge my application. Totally agree. I respond to all applicants, even if that response is a polite rejection. The only things I ignore (actually, I mark them as spam) are recruiters and outsourcers. > If you have "We get sooooo many applications, we'll only contact those we're interested in" I go "Bullshit!". I think you'd be surprised. Dozens a day. And I have another job - actually running a company. > Optional: This might not be for everyone, but I personally think it is a good approach. Whenever you send a rejection, state why you're rejecting the candidate Warning for others: DO NOT DO THIS. I did this for the first 3 people who ever applied. It took me 30 minutes to compose those emails, and I went into considerable detail. Oh, and it was really harrowing to write negative things about another human being, especially one who hadn't asked for it. One replied, and was very thankful for the feedback and promised to work on it. He replied a few months later thanking me again. Two didn't reply, which means my hour was not only wasted, but I actually sent feedback that they didn't want or appreciate (which means they now think I'm an asshole). Now, I send feedback to anyone who asks for it, and sometimes will have a back-and-forth about it. > Instead, put in as much effort as I do. In this, and the other things which others have described as "a sense of entitlement", you're committing the same crime as the employers: only caring about and seeing your side of the story. I've been on both sides in recent history, and both sides (and both "Dear HN" pieces) suffer from not looking at the other person's position (something which is useful in nearly all walks of business, as well as life).

GrahamsNumber 14y ago
Don't get me wrong, like I said, there's plenty of jobs@domain.com that actually read and reply to applications, but it's a black hole a lot of the times, and I tend to avoid it. I would suggest you use something like Name@domain.com. Perhaps you could do a separate e-mail just for hiring. Say your email is john.smith@domain.com, do a jsmith@domain.com just for hiring. That way, you can just auto-forward to someone else when you need him to take over. Here's a reason why I think this would also benefit your hiring a bit. I usually address my emails with the name of the person, so I'd open with "Hi John", "Hey John", "Dear John", or some variation of that. I can't do that at jobs@domain.com, because there may be multiple people reading that, so I'd have to do something more generic. What that means for you, the employer, is that I actually read your post and wrote the e-mail, and not just bcc'd you together with another hundred guys. I'd never think sending feedback would be a bad choice. Of course, don't send something offensive like "you're the worst programmer ever". I don't think anyone would be offended by "we're looking for someone with more experience in X", which is what I suggested. As for the way I phrase some of my emails: I've only send the "is the job still available" kind only a couple of times, but perhaps surprisingly I got some of the best contacts this way. Perhaps because the guy on the other end was open to going past that. In fact, the best hiring process I've had with someone I had emailed with "I've attached my resume" when in fact I hadn't. Few jokes later, I had a job offer.
- olivier1664 14y ago
  What about "Hey team"?
- davedx 14y ago
  In the UK at least, I had to be VERY careful about why I said we weren't considering an applicant, because it's a legal minefield. Which kind of precludes giving detailed feedback.
- pbiggar 14y ago
  > Of course, don't send something offensive like "you're the worst programmer ever". I don't think anyone would be offended by "we're looking for someone with more experience in X", which is what I suggested. Well yes, but you have to tell people the truth for it to be useful, which means saying things like "we didn't find your design to be that good" or "your code isn't that great". The recipient will not be happy to receive those unsolicited. I'm sure they'd be perfectly happy with "looking for more experience", as they're not to blame for that.

by pbiggar 14y ago

GrahamsNumber 14y ago

Don't get me wrong, like I said, there's plenty of jobs@domain.com that actually read and reply to applications, but it's a black hole a lot of the times, and I tend to avoid it. I would suggest you use something like Name@domain.com. Perhaps you could do a separate e-mail just for hiring. Say your email is john.smith@domain.com, do a jsmith@domain.com just for hiring. That way, you can just auto-forward to someone else when you need him to take over. Here's a reason why I think this would also benefit your hiring a bit. I usually address my emails with the name of the person, so I'd open with "Hi John", "Hey John", "Dear John", or some variation of that. I can't do that at jobs@domain.com, because there may be multiple people reading that, so I'd have to do something more generic. What that means for you, the employer, is that I actually read your post and wrote the e-mail, and not just bcc'd you together with another hundred guys. I'd never think sending feedback would be a bad choice. Of course, don't send something offensive like "you're the worst programmer ever". I don't think anyone would be offended by "we're looking for someone with more experience in X", which is what I suggested. As for the way I phrase some of my emails: I've only send the "is the job still available" kind only a couple of times, but perhaps surprisingly I got some of the best contacts this way. Perhaps because the guy on the other end was open to going past that. In fact, the best hiring process I've had with someone I had emailed with "I've attached my resume" when in fact I hadn't. Few jokes later, I had a job offer.

olivier1664 14y ago
What about "Hey team"?
davedx 14y ago
In the UK at least, I had to be VERY careful about why I said we weren't considering an applicant, because it's a legal minefield. Which kind of precludes giving detailed feedback.
pbiggar 14y ago
> Of course, don't send something offensive like "you're the worst programmer ever". I don't think anyone would be offended by "we're looking for someone with more experience in X", which is what I suggested. Well yes, but you have to tell people the truth for it to be useful, which means saying things like "we didn't find your design to be that good" or "your code isn't that great". The recipient will not be happy to receive those unsolicited. I'm sure they'd be perfectly happy with "looking for more experience", as they're not to blame for that.