5 ms·

They're not useless. I discard any application I get that doesn't have a cover letter. I'm WAY more interested in your cover letter than your resume as it tells

They're not useless. I discard any application I get that doesn't have a cover letter. I'm WAY more interested in your cover letter than your resume as it tells me a lot more about you than your dot-point-resume will ever tell me. To be fair, the job ads I place specifically tell you what to put in a cover letter. So if you reply without one, then it's a super quick filter to see that you didn't even read the ad. If you don't want the job enough to read the ad, I don't want you enough to read your resume.

lawnchair_larry 14y ago
I discard any employer that requires a cover letter. Cover letters don't tell you anything. If you think they do, you don't know how most people write them, and you probably miss a lot of good candidates. It's an unreasonable demand. You're not the only place that I am applying. Either I send all fifteen of you a generic cover letter (which is likely no better than not sending one), or I customize it for each of you, which probably takes about another hour per application. It takes you 5 minutes to read. If you like my application, I have to cut time out of my work day for everyone at your company to call me back, usually at least three times (recruiter initial contact, manager contact, technical phone screen). After that, I take a couple of my paid vacation days off work for on-site interviews. I have to make arrangements for someone else to look after the kids because I'm out of town overnight and the wife does shift work. I have to work a few more weeks to replenish those vacation days if it doesn't work out. All the while, I still have timelines and can't tip my current manager off that I'm looking elsewhere. Again, multiply this by a few companies - maybe three or so get to that point. That's costly, but necessary and understandable. At that point, there is serious consideration for a working relationship, so such demands on a candidate's time are more reasonable. And don't forget, at least one of you likely has some sort of programming assignment or problem set that you use after the phone screen, which I will spend several hours on. To top it off, I'm going to guess that you don't even have the decency to post salary range in your ads. And, your recruiter is going to try and ask me about my salary history, but fail to mention the budget for the position, and my first indication won't come until there is an offer letter. So, anyone who does this, thanks for self-selecting!
- mootothemax 14y ago
  You're doing it wrong. I just want a quick note explaining briefly who you are and why you're applying. It shouldn't take more than five minutes. Seriously, try hiring someone, the influx of irrelevant applicants and those who won't take even thirty seconds to read your ad is truly dispiriting. If you make even the tiniest effort with your application, you will stand out, guaranteed.
  - lawnchair_larry 14y ago
    I dont think I'm doing it wrong. I do what you say, a quick note. Maybe two sentences. That's not a cover letter though, like GP is requiring. It's certainly not more information than is on my resume. The thought of a cover letter that exhaustive is a little bit crazy, frankly. If it sounds like I'm complaining, it's not because I'm frustrated, but because it's slightly offensive to see that being demanded. In my experience, their internal recruiters monitoring inbounds are usually ringing me before my finger is even off the send button. They don't seem to look for or care about a cover letter, and I haven't had trouble getting offers, even from top tier companies. And honestly, I don't even think I'm that impressive. From what I can tell, anyone who has fogged a mirror at a half-respectable tech company already will at least get a phone screen these days. When I was previously involved in hiring, I don't recall ever seeing cover letters on inbounds either. When asked in person by potential candidates, I always told them not to.
    - lessnonymous 14y ago
      I didn't ask for more information. What you decide to tell me in your cover letter is way more interesting than your exhaustive list of every piece of software you've ever used. I'm not a recruiter who throws resumes at a text processor and sends through useless people to the employer because of some random keyword. I'm the employer who's looking for quality people who are interesting. In judging that, your resume is fairly useless compared to a cover letter. I've applied for about two dozen jobs in my life. I have about a 33% success rate getting an interview and have got the job at every interview but one. Having now been a hiring manager for the past five years, I believe that's down to the fact that I don't just pump out bland useless resumes to people. (And I avoid recruiters!) TL;DR; Here's my advice: If you're applying to a large corporation or via a recruiter, the cover letter is probably useless. But if you're applying directly (or to a HN post!) then spend a few minutes explaining yourself.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
vacri 14y ago
You can combine the two. I learned a trick from a friend - for your employment history, have a prose section that describes what you did. At the bottom of that, put the skills used in a box. The checklisters can look at the box, and the people who want to know more can scan the prose.

lawnchair_larry 14y ago

I discard any employer that requires a cover letter. Cover letters don't tell you anything. If you think they do, you don't know how most people write them, and you probably miss a lot of good candidates. It's an unreasonable demand. You're not the only place that I am applying. Either I send all fifteen of you a generic cover letter (which is likely no better than not sending one), or I customize it for each of you, which probably takes about another hour per application. It takes you 5 minutes to read. If you like my application, I have to cut time out of my work day for everyone at your company to call me back, usually at least three times (recruiter initial contact, manager contact, technical phone screen). After that, I take a couple of my paid vacation days off work for on-site interviews. I have to make arrangements for someone else to look after the kids because I'm out of town overnight and the wife does shift work. I have to work a few more weeks to replenish those vacation days if it doesn't work out. All the while, I still have timelines and can't tip my current manager off that I'm looking elsewhere. Again, multiply this by a few companies - maybe three or so get to that point. That's costly, but necessary and understandable. At that point, there is serious consideration for a working relationship, so such demands on a candidate's time are more reasonable. And don't forget, at least one of you likely has some sort of programming assignment or problem set that you use after the phone screen, which I will spend several hours on. To top it off, I'm going to guess that you don't even have the decency to post salary range in your ads. And, your recruiter is going to try and ask me about my salary history, but fail to mention the budget for the position, and my first indication won't come until there is an offer letter. So, anyone who does this, thanks for self-selecting!

mootothemax 14y ago
You're doing it wrong. I just want a quick note explaining briefly who you are and why you're applying. It shouldn't take more than five minutes. Seriously, try hiring someone, the influx of irrelevant applicants and those who won't take even thirty seconds to read your ad is truly dispiriting. If you make even the tiniest effort with your application, you will stand out, guaranteed.
- lawnchair_larry 14y ago
  I dont think I'm doing it wrong. I do what you say, a quick note. Maybe two sentences. That's not a cover letter though, like GP is requiring. It's certainly not more information than is on my resume. The thought of a cover letter that exhaustive is a little bit crazy, frankly. If it sounds like I'm complaining, it's not because I'm frustrated, but because it's slightly offensive to see that being demanded. In my experience, their internal recruiters monitoring inbounds are usually ringing me before my finger is even off the send button. They don't seem to look for or care about a cover letter, and I haven't had trouble getting offers, even from top tier companies. And honestly, I don't even think I'm that impressive. From what I can tell, anyone who has fogged a mirror at a half-respectable tech company already will at least get a phone screen these days. When I was previously involved in hiring, I don't recall ever seeing cover letters on inbounds either. When asked in person by potential candidates, I always told them not to.
  - lessnonymous 14y ago
    I didn't ask for more information. What you decide to tell me in your cover letter is way more interesting than your exhaustive list of every piece of software you've ever used. I'm not a recruiter who throws resumes at a text processor and sends through useless people to the employer because of some random keyword. I'm the employer who's looking for quality people who are interesting. In judging that, your resume is fairly useless compared to a cover letter. I've applied for about two dozen jobs in my life. I have about a 33% success rate getting an interview and have got the job at every interview but one. Having now been a hiring manager for the past five years, I believe that's down to the fact that I don't just pump out bland useless resumes to people. (And I avoid recruiters!) TL;DR; Here's my advice: If you're applying to a large corporation or via a recruiter, the cover letter is probably useless. But if you're applying directly (or to a HN post!) then spend a few minutes explaining yourself.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

vacri 14y ago

You can combine the two. I learned a trick from a friend - for your employment history, have a prose section that describes what you did. At the bottom of that, put the skills used in a box. The checklisters can look at the box, and the people who want to know more can scan the prose.