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Apple lost all credibility with me for the reasons listed in the article. Given the motivations of each, which one would you trust more?

coldtea 14y ago
Apple. At least they are in it for the money (and some proud in their products), not some ideology.
- raganwald 14y ago
  I'm sorry to be the one to pull on the yarn and unravel your sweater, but the belief that the pursuit of wealth is in some way meritorious or beneficial is in itself an ideology. So either you mean that you like your ideology of "the invisible hand" more than Stallman's ideology of "freedom," or you have fallen into the trap of thinking that "ideology" is a word that only applies to the other guy's beliefs.
  - IheartApplesDix 14y ago
    You are truly a patient man.
  - coldtea 14y ago
    >I'm sorry to be the one to pull on the yarn and unravel your sweater, but the belief that the pursuit of wealth is in some way meritorious or beneficial is in itself an ideology. And I'm sorry to surprise you, but I also believe that. I'm not a liberal or in favor of the "free market" at all. But, see, while the belief that the "pursuit of wealth is in some way meritorious or beneficial" is an ideology, mere pursuit of wealth is not an ideology. With all this said, I can clarify my original comment. My reasoning is, entities with one narrow and well understood goal (money) are easier to reason and deal with than entities dealing on ideology.
    - IheartApplesDix 14y ago
      >My reasoning is, entities with one narrow and well understood goal (money) are easier to reason and deal with than entities dealing on ideology. How do you reach such a conclusion? Because you said so?
      - coldtea 14y ago
        >How do you reach such a conclusion? Because you said so? No, by examining history (well, those facts available to me), and making some mental work of drawing connections and forming ideas. Why not provide a counter-argument (or even just an alternative proposition) instead of insulting me with the "because you said so" thing? For me it's obvious --to the point of making explaining it inane-- that a company dealing with money is easier to reason about and deal with than people deep in ideology. A quick definition of ideology is that of a belief system not particularly moved by facts. This is what makes it frightening. Sure, corporations have committed huge crimes for money -- but at least you know what they are after and how they will go about it. With ideology? Not so much. There are hundreds of millions of victims of ideology all around the world. From the victims of Stalinism to the Holocaust, to the Spanish Inquisition, to the Manson family etc. Whereas economy/money is the domain of greed, ideology is the domain of whatever. It can raise the more crazy and multi-faceted monsters.
        IheartApplesDix 14y ago
        >Why not provide a counter-argument (or even just an alternative proposition) instead of insulting me with the "because you said so" thing? The irony of this statement is lost on you. Suck my dick. The rest of your post is so god damn pointless I can't even read it. My brain rejects it outright.
gurkendoktor 14y ago
There is no logical reason that this should be an either/or decision.
- IheartApplesDix 14y ago
  I said more. Yes, you will probably trust one a little bit more.

coldtea 14y ago

Apple. At least they are in it for the money (and some proud in their products), not some ideology.

raganwald 14y ago
I'm sorry to be the one to pull on the yarn and unravel your sweater, but the belief that the pursuit of wealth is in some way meritorious or beneficial is in itself an ideology. So either you mean that you like your ideology of "the invisible hand" more than Stallman's ideology of "freedom," or you have fallen into the trap of thinking that "ideology" is a word that only applies to the other guy's beliefs.
- IheartApplesDix 14y ago
  You are truly a patient man.
- coldtea 14y ago
  >I'm sorry to be the one to pull on the yarn and unravel your sweater, but the belief that the pursuit of wealth is in some way meritorious or beneficial is in itself an ideology. And I'm sorry to surprise you, but I also believe that. I'm not a liberal or in favor of the "free market" at all. But, see, while the belief that the "pursuit of wealth is in some way meritorious or beneficial" is an ideology, mere pursuit of wealth is not an ideology. With all this said, I can clarify my original comment. My reasoning is, entities with one narrow and well understood goal (money) are easier to reason and deal with than entities dealing on ideology.
  - IheartApplesDix 14y ago
    >My reasoning is, entities with one narrow and well understood goal (money) are easier to reason and deal with than entities dealing on ideology. How do you reach such a conclusion? Because you said so?
    - coldtea 14y ago
      >How do you reach such a conclusion? Because you said so? No, by examining history (well, those facts available to me), and making some mental work of drawing connections and forming ideas. Why not provide a counter-argument (or even just an alternative proposition) instead of insulting me with the "because you said so" thing? For me it's obvious --to the point of making explaining it inane-- that a company dealing with money is easier to reason about and deal with than people deep in ideology. A quick definition of ideology is that of a belief system not particularly moved by facts. This is what makes it frightening. Sure, corporations have committed huge crimes for money -- but at least you know what they are after and how they will go about it. With ideology? Not so much. There are hundreds of millions of victims of ideology all around the world. From the victims of Stalinism to the Holocaust, to the Spanish Inquisition, to the Manson family etc. Whereas economy/money is the domain of greed, ideology is the domain of whatever. It can raise the more crazy and multi-faceted monsters.
      - IheartApplesDix 14y ago
        >Why not provide a counter-argument (or even just an alternative proposition) instead of insulting me with the "because you said so" thing? The irony of this statement is lost on you. Suck my dick. The rest of your post is so god damn pointless I can't even read it. My brain rejects it outright.

gurkendoktor 14y ago

There is no logical reason that this should be an either/or decision.

IheartApplesDix 14y ago
I said more. Yes, you will probably trust one a little bit more.