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The reasons that Ruby/Rails community ridiculed (obviously accurate) "ruby is slow" are exact same reasons the community was such a success in the first place.

by Eliezer 18y ago

The reasons that Ruby/Rails community ridiculed (obviously accurate) "ruby is slow" are exact same reasons the community was such a success in the first place. Consider what would have happened if "ruby is slow" meme took off. Sadly, there's no standard and acknowlegedly forceful way to say: "Your statement is technically veridical but I disagree with the connotations you intend to sneak in." http://lesswrong.com/lw/4h/when_truth_isnt_enough/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/4h/when_truth_isnt_enough/

10ren 18y ago
Nice exposition of the idea, thanks. In the vernacular, isn't it just "attitude" and "tone"? It's also possible to not intend the connotations, at least not consciously. My language is powerful; yours has dynamic binding; his is slow.
dkarl 18y ago
Sadly, there's no standard and acknowlegedly forceful way to say: "Your statement is technically veridical but I disagree with the connotations you intend to sneak in." Yeah, there is. You yell. That's why cable TV news shows (and politics in general) suck so much -- you get two sides who refuse to actually contradict each other competing on volume to have their message triumph over the other. That's because most of the people watching are going to come away with one idea, and you want those people. If you want to "win" in the minds of those simple-minded people, and your opponent isn't saying something that can be easily falsified, you have to compete on volume, arrogance, and ferocity. On the other hand, if you only care about the viewers or readers who are capable of having a nuanced view, you can simply say what you have to say, as clearly and cogently as you know how. They'll understand and remember. But will you really be satisfied with those people? Probably not, if you're fighting for votes or market share. In other words, unless all you want is a fair shake from intelligent people, what you want can't be had in a civil way.

by Eliezer 18y ago

10ren 18y ago

Nice exposition of the idea, thanks. In the vernacular, isn't it just "attitude" and "tone"? It's also possible to not intend the connotations, at least not consciously. My language is powerful; yours has dynamic binding; his is slow.

dkarl 18y ago

Sadly, there's no standard and acknowlegedly forceful way to say: "Your statement is technically veridical but I disagree with the connotations you intend to sneak in." Yeah, there is. You yell. That's why cable TV news shows (and politics in general) suck so much -- you get two sides who refuse to actually contradict each other competing on volume to have their message triumph over the other. That's because most of the people watching are going to come away with one idea, and you want those people. If you want to "win" in the minds of those simple-minded people, and your opponent isn't saying something that can be easily falsified, you have to compete on volume, arrogance, and ferocity. On the other hand, if you only care about the viewers or readers who are capable of having a nuanced view, you can simply say what you have to say, as clearly and cogently as you know how. They'll understand and remember. But will you really be satisfied with those people? Probably not, if you're fighting for votes or market share. In other words, unless all you want is a fair shake from intelligent people, what you want can't be had in a civil way.